Liverpool since Evans

[Catrin]

The one and only

and lest we forget....Rigobert Song

Wasn't he a Houllier signing?

In fairness to Roy, didn't he have Sol Campbell lined up only for the board to refuse to sanction the deal?

[knockers]

We were better under Ged?

Hold on.

Let's clear this one up.

Evans did an okay job IMO. Let's not forget the wreckage that was left over from the Souness era. Admittedly he couldn't sort out the defence - I wonder if it would've been different had we landed Blanc, Stam or Desailly - and the spice boys culture while it created a strong team spirit was an unnecessary distraction. But we went closer to the title under Roy than we have under either Ged or Rafa. FACT. In a way he was unlucky that Demento inherited all those excellent young players from the scums academy all at once, it saved him from rebuilding the side again.

IMO Houllier was a disaster for Liverpool FC. Large sums spunked on second rate ****e French, awful, truely ghastly football, hoofing, the worst I've seen in my lifetime. Those pathetic excuses, Square pegs and round holes, Smicer for Hamann, Basle, 5 year plan, no league title challenge, Diouf instead of Anelka. And as for that treble season, we were lucky, very lucky, we needed pens to beat Brum in the league cup final, spanked by Arsenal only for Owen to save us, and it took extra time and two of theirs sent of for us to beat that Spanish pub team in the UEFA cup final. Perhaps the manner of the victories distracted us from the cold hard truth, at the time. He was blagger, pure and simple. He nearly took this club to the mattresses.

Liverpool as a club exist to win trophies, Evans won only one league cup. I loved watching Liverpool under Evans when we played some great attacking football, but in reality it didn't win us much apart from that one league cup.
Fergiscum was lucky with the youth players he inherited and Evans was very unlucky to have to clear up the mess Souness left (although Souness had the very difficult job of having to replace a team of 'foreigner' as they were deemed when the none 'English' european quota rule was bought in, we had a team of Scot's and Irish that won the FA cup a few years earlier)

Football under Houllier was terrible at times (alot of the time I admit) but he did bring in trophies, no matter who we beat to win them, or if we were lucky or not. Those wins provided more medals and finals that will live in the memories of the players and fans for a long time longer than the memory of 'nearly' winning the league, we actually finished 4th that year. So I'm not sure that your 'FACT' that we went closer to winning the league under Evans that we have under Rafa or Houllier who both gained higher points totals then Evans ever achieved.

If Houllier hadn't had suffered his heart attack while were were top of the league who knows what would have happened. Admittedly after he returned he was never the same manager and I agree he lost the plot after that and made some woeful signings and was rightly replaced. I think the changes he made to the discipline of the players in and around the club, as well as bringing in a more continental approach to players lifestyle were positive changes.

The fact you think think he was a blagger is an insult to a former manager who's knowledge of the football world is acknowledged throughout the game by his peers.

Football under Rafa may not be as expansive or exciting as it was under Evans but given time and the right players I'm sure his system of compact, fluid team football will take us to the title, I just hope he's given the time to prove me right.

Fook me, writing these posts takes a long time, now I know why I don't post much.

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

Liverpool as a club exist to win trophies, Evans won only one league cup. I loved watching Liverpool under Evans when we played some great attacking football, but in reality it didn't win us much apart from that one league cup.
Fergiscum was lucky with the youth players he inherited and Evans was very unlucky to have to clear up the mess Souness left (although Souness had the very difficult job of having to replace a team of 'foreigner' as they were deemed when the none 'English' european quota rule was bought in, we had a team of Scot's and Irish that won the FA cup a few years earlier)

Football under Houllier was terrible at times (alot of the time I admit) but he did bring in trophies, no matter who we beat to win them, or if we were lucky or not. Those wins provided more medals and finals that will live in the memories of the players and fans for a long time longer than the memory of 'nearly' winning the league, we actually finished 4th that year. So I'm not sure that your 'FACT' that we went closer to winning the league under Evans that we have under Rafa or Houllier who both gained higher points totals then Evans ever achieved.

If Houllier hadn't had suffered his heart attack while were were top of the league who knows what would have happened. Admittedly after he returned he was never the same manager and I agree he lost the plot after that and made some woeful signings and was rightly replaced. I think the changes he made to the discipline of the players in and around the club, as well as bringing in a more continental approach to players lifestyle were positive changes.

The fact you think think he was a blagger is an insult to a former manager who's knowledge of the football world is acknowledged throughout the game by his peers.

Football under Rafa may not be as expansive or exciting as it was under Evans but given time and the right players I'm sure his system of compact, fluid team football will take us to the title, I just hope he's given the time to prove me right.

Fook me, writing these posts takes a long time, now I know why I don't post much.

The season he got ill I remember well. Tommo took over the side and "let them off the leash", we weren't going to win the league that season, Arsenal were on another level, but we were on course for the European Cup. I was convinced we were going to do it. Then he came back and it all fell apart.

And it was a fact that we went closest to the league under Evans, think it was 95/96 we were in with a shout until mid April. Forget the highest points total in 2002, it was a one horse race from February onwards.

Still think Ged took the club backwards, look at how bad we were when Rafa took over. Now that was a mess.

[vantage]

And a few great ones as well!

Houllier was desperate towards the end.The football we played was dire i have to admit,but i truly believe he would of one us the league had he not been ill.

He took a few gambles aswell.He cocked up with the Anelka situation,but only the benefit hignsight makes that clear.

Diouf,Diao and Cheyrou were the downfalls of Houllier!

Add Vignal, Diarra, ALT, FSP, Diomede, Traore, Camara, and to a lesser extent Biscan, Cisse, and Smicer.

The difference under Rafa is that when he cocks up, he gets rid fairly quickly and doesn't lose a great deal of cash. Ged did the opposite. We have only just recovered from his transfer policy, IMO.

[anfieldanfield]

We've won more trophies under Houllier and Benitez, but in terms of lifting the title, we were closer under Evans.

[rage]

did evans bring through more reserves/youth players? suppose time will tell.

One thing that does confuse me is the lack of reserves/youth players seeing some first team action. For instance i'd like to see one of the strikers, a winger, centre back and full back be in or on the fringes of the 1st team squad.

off the top of my head that includes the likes of nemeth, hammil, hobbs and insua.

[carrsim]

i'd just like to point out that souness turned down the chanc to sign keane not roy

roy team's folded when it mattered which is why we came close but not close enough. not enough mental strength

under both houllier and rafa, thehigh points tallies would suggest a level of consistency and ability that roy's lot didn't have.

i have lots of theories about the post kenny/hillsborough liverpool which i won't share for fear of offending someone.

but i think that had roy's more friendly style been appointed after kenny and not souness (who had the european playing experience at a time when liverpool had lost their advantage of playing in europe every season due to the ban) then we might have evolved differently as a club.

souness was too abrasive, aggressive and eager to change things at a time when liverpool - the club and city- were probably reeling from the tragedies and kenny's departure too much to embrace change.

souness's intentions were worthy (except the s** story) but his methods were not what we needed at that time.

after roy, we needed houllier to bring in more modern thinking in terms of preparation, training, diet and facilities (even if the football was mid 80s wimbledon) and i'm sure rafa has benefited from that work by houllier.

in many ways i'd say we've advanced- our facilites are amongst the best in europe, our scouting network is now truly global. but now we really need 3 or 4 high quality (and probably expensive) additions to the first team, we are hamstrung by the procrastination of Moores and Parry to get the stadium built 10 years ago.

[Red Chilli]

Interesting post, I don't think Rafa's teams are more consistent than Evans's.

Houllier's were consistent, consistenly dull, but consstent.

[carrsim]

Interesting post, I don't think Rafa's teams are more consistent than Evans's.

Houllier's were consistent, consistenly dull, but consstent.

rafa has secured the hightest points tally liverpool have accrued since the start of the premier league. this means (for one season at least) that rafa's team were the most consistent winners over 38 games of any liverpool team since 1992-93.

i'd imagine that the league placing average between the 2 is similar. but is that down to us not improving or other clubs raising their own standards? i'd suspect that latter, but then i am a rafa apologist

[Neil Young]

i'd just like to point out that souness turned down the chanc to sign keane not roy

roy team's folded when it mattered which is why we came close but not close enough. not enough mental strength

under both houllier and rafa, thehigh points tallies would suggest a level of consistency and ability that roy's lot didn't have.

i have lots of theories about the post kenny/hillsborough liverpool which i won't share for fear of offending someone.

but i think that had roy's more friendly style been appointed after kenny and not souness (who had the european playing experience at a time when liverpool had lost their advantage of playing in europe every season due to the ban) then we might have evolved differently as a club.

souness was too abrasive, aggressive and eager to change things at a time when liverpool - the club and city- were probably reeling from the tragedies and kenny's departure too much to embrace change.

souness's intentions were worthy (except the s** story) but his methods were not what we needed at that time.

after roy, we needed houllier to bring in more modern thinking in terms of preparation, training, diet and facilities (even if the football was mid 80s wimbledon) and i'm sure rafa has benefited from that work by houllier.

in many ways i'd say we've advanced- our facilites are amongst the best in europe, our scouting network is now truly global. but now we really need 3 or 4 high quality (and probably expensive) additions to the first team, we are hamstrung by the procrastination of Moores and Parry to get the stadium built 10 years ago.

Interesting post. The bit I highlighted is so important in our relative decline.

[JRC]

Everyone remembers the first Newcastle 4-3, but the following Saturday we went to Coventry and lost in a scruffy, undignified and ugly game (I think Harkness broke his leg as well, iirc). We were always capable of that under Roy - I think the point about lacking mental strength was true; that seemed to be the time we developed the amazing ability to throw away opportunities placed in our lap (e.g. defeat - again to Coventry, this time at Anfield - to two late f****d up corners after Utd had been beaten and we could (should) have gone on to win the league; the much trumpeted year we came nearest to it under Roy was also the year we blew it). However much you want to peddle the tedious and misplaced revisionist/Manc/Bluesh*te line about how 'lucky' we were in 2001, that wonderful season (especially the run-in) was categorised by a magnificent strength of purpose and will, failure to admit defeat and digging out victories from draws or defeats - Roma, Barca, Birmingham, Goodison, Arsenal, Coventry, Charlton....

[Imy]

OK i've not read all 3 pages of this but Roy Evans was very unlucky, he did build a very good football team but didn't get the FULL support of the board.

He and others have mentioned how he wanted to sign Sheringham, Thuram, Desailly all were rejected by the board. Had he bought these players it certainly would have shored up the leaky defence and added some fire power up front.

Have we moved on since, as a whole the team are more solid MUCH better defensively but with regards to playing football and the flair the answer is no we haven't seen that type of football since Evans left.

[The Wolfman]

two European cup finals.


Can't **** with that.


Only beaten by paisley.

[Joe Le Toff]

he will play them when they are ready mate. he hasnt spent all that time effort and money on this youth set up to never give them a chance.

There are a hell of a lot more than 3 of these kids capable of making it into the 1st team mate, trust me, I watch a hell of a lot of reserve/acadamy football.

Nemeth, Linfield, Barnett, Hammill, Parsonage, Leto, Francis, Pacheco, Adjaravic, Insua, Darby, Hobbs, Bouzanis, Ecclestone, Pourie, Plessis and Amoo are all players with more than enough potential and ability to make it not only into the first team, but to the very top of their profession.

Wether they do or not is down to attitude, luck and desire but every kid I have just mentioned has a ridiculous ammount of talent. If you dont believe me, watch them yourself.

You are so so wrong in not giving Rafa credit for this current crop of youth players.

The seasoned internationals at the club cant seem to handle the pressure of playing for us at the moment with all this **** thats going on, yet you think it would be wise to throw some of these kids in, like a lamb to the slaughter. Madness.

When the time is right, Rafa will give these kids a chance because they are good enough. He sees them in training every day so he has a better idea than us as to wether they are ready to handle the pressure yet or not.

Havent seen very much of the lads you mention but ive seen a bit of Pacheco and hes going to be a top player imo, i really rate him.

For the record, whoever said Ferguson was lucky getting Beckham, Scholes, Giggs et al from the youth set-up is plain wrong. There is no luck in it, Ferguson totally revamped their scouting network and academy set-up, put the right people in the right scouting jobs, developed the raw and undoubted ability these boys had and reaped the rewards of that, just like Rafa is doing with us now, and in 5 years i think we'll all see the benefit of Rafa's policy.

[carheex]

Thing is, the premier league has developed and moved on massively over the last decade and i dont think that Roy Evans would have been able to keep up with Ferguson and Wenger. They were looking to bring in top players from abroad and had a head start. I dont think Roy would have managed to succeed.

Sadly most of Houlliers signing were crap also. But the idea of change was the correct one for the sake of progression

the same can be said of every manager apart from mourinho, who was assisted largely by his sugar daddy.

liverpool, and evans, would have been far more succesful had they benefitted from the rule change to allow 3rd/4th place finishes enter the champions league. those rules changed during houllier's tenure giving the impression that "he" succeeded in getting us CL football when it was merely coincidence. evans finished 3rd twice and 4th twice - that would have been 4 seasosn worth of CL/TV money and i'm sure he wouldn't have blown it so carelessly as houllier. you can point at some his poor signings if you like but he was restrained by his budget, in much the same way as benitez was which explains the likes of kuyt, pennant and bellamy. Evans was vastly under appreciated.