Rafael Benitez has conceded that sometimes he "gambles too much"

[dww]

I think the couple of million we spent on Gonzalez was a perfectly reasonable gamble. There is a much better case in situations like Pennant where we paid a more significant fee for only a decent player who had not developed into a top player and was probably too old to be considered a 'prospect' any more.

I actually think Benayoun was a very good buy. I think if any of this summers buys deserve questioning it would be Babel. He has enormous potential but we paid a lot for him and at 21 he wasn't as young as some make out. He also doesn't really fit the positions we had in mind for him. I imagine he might grow into the team but I thought last summers big buys should have been fully developed players which Babel patently is not.

[Diego]

Yes he can. He ships out people, replaces them with average replacements, who either have no real impact or are shipped out a year or two later...and we're back to square one.

Keep the original players, instead of virtually giving them away, hang onto the money until a better transfer option is available, and go from there.

but you have to agree that we could not have kept smicer for another three years, even though pennant isn't a world beater he's still miles better. if we would have kept the original players, we'd probably be worse of even though we would have bought one very good one a year...

[Woobus]

For me the problem this year was losing Agger and Alonso for such a long period. Before they got injured we were playing some real nice football and always seemed to be playing in the other teams half with Mascher or Sissoko always stealing the ball in dangerous areas for us. We attacked as a unit and defended as one.
When these players got injured it seemed to change our whole system. We didnt know how to defend and stopped playing so far forward, started to give the ball away a lot more due to having to try the long ball more without Agger to bring it out. No doubt Rafas rotation had caused us to drop some points but then it has probably helped us to gain some points as well.

[akjs123]

As ive said over and over, if the decent options arent available, keep your money rather than spending it on 3 useless options.

But is that a sensible stance if the squad is full of holes. Gonzalez was sold for a profit. Before Pennant came, we had only Gerrard and Garcia as our right sided players and even they had to play CM and LW in some games. Garcia was out for 6 months last season. What would have happened if we didnt have Pennant. By Rafa's method we came 3rd and reached CL finals. By your method, with the injuries, we would be struggling to finish 4th.

[Craig_H]

Erm...we ARE struggling to finish 4th!

[akjs123]

Erm...we ARE struggling to finish 4th!

Well then you can very well imagine what would have happened if there was no Pennant or Yossi. It would be far worse

On a serious note, I was referring to last season. This season, we have had a blip in form, and off the field matters havent helped at all. But I am in no doubt that we'll easily finish fourth.

[Craig_H]

No because if there hadnt been a Pennant and Yossi there'd have been an extra £13m to help sign a proper top class winger.

[akjs123]

No because if there hadnt been a Pennant and Yossi there'd have been an extra £13m to help sign a proper top class winger.

But we did make a £11-13m bid for Malouda and a £15m bid for Mancini THIS season only (Dont remember accurate figures).We were also in for Cicinho if I remember correctly. Who else are you suggesting we would have bought? If a top winger on Rafa's list was available and willing to join, he would have been playing for us right now.

Edit: In reality, if we didnt have Pennant, we probably wouldnt have reached CL finals last season (see garcia injury) and that would have affected the club's income which inturn would have affected Rafa's transfer kitty.

[Craig_H]

Partly true, but we also faf about in the transfer market more than most.

And i still maintain if the proper targets arent purchasable, you're better off keeping the cash instead of buying 3 average players, who you'll no doubt conclude arent good enough 18 months later.

[akjs123]

Partly true, but we also faf about in the transfer market more than most.

And i still maintain if the proper targets arent purchasable, you're better off keeping the cash instead of buying 3 average players, who you'll no doubt conclude arent good enough 18 months later.

DJS our problem has been that our squad has had too many holes. Before we signed Fowler, we had only 3 strikers and if one of them got injured, the others would have to play each and every game. Before Agger was signed, we had only Carra and Sami as good centre backs. Before Arbeloa was signed, Finnan was playing almost all games without rest for 6 months. Before Pennant, we had only Gerrard and Garcia on the right. The Skrtl signing was also important because of Hyypia's age.
Players like Pennant, Zenden(who I had completely forgotten about until now), Bellamy etc are squad fillers who are vital because they allow the team to easily finish in the top 4 while competing for trophies(which is a bonus to win) while being an improvement on the players they replace.
If you look at our squad at the end of 04-2005 season, out of 24 players, only 7(including Carson) are at the club right now. 5 of those sold were Morientes, Garcia, Josemi, Nunez, Pellegrino. So Rafa has had to do a massive massive rebuidling.
It is only this season that we have had a "complete" squad with no holes and you can expect Rafa to replace 1-2 average players with top players each summer just like he did with Torres for Bellamy and Masch for Momo and Lucas for Zenden.

Put your argument in context with Bellamy and Torres. Bellamy did a job for us and was sold for a profit when the chance to sign Torres came.

[dww]

I think that many people believe that we would have been better off filling in with the likes of Peltier and Guthrie for a season in some positions and adding one top player each year rather than buying slightly better squad players and having no additional top quality players.

I think that we have done okay in the transfer market but we should probably have looked to develop young players into the team in one or two instances rather than but in players. I guess it is dependent on whether we could have got the right players in as alternatives to those we actually bought. At the end of the day I tend towards your view akjs123.

However I would probably have baulked at the fee we paid for Pennant, even though I think he is a good player as he is limited and one of those limitations is that he doesn't score enough.

[Craig_H]

I think that many people believe that we would have been better off filling in with the likes of Peltier and Guthrie for a season in some positions and adding one top player each year rather than buying slightly better squad players and having no additional top quality players.

Thank you!

The average players we've signed have made as weak an impact as a few kids probably could've done. I very much doubt the average bunch are the difference between finishing 4th and not.

[akjs123]

Thank you!

The average players we've signed have made as weak an impact as a few kids probably could've done. I very much doubt the average bunch are the difference between finishing 4th and not.

We can only speculate whether our youngsters are good enough for the first team. Rafa and other staff see them in training and are in a much better position to make a decision.
Of all our players out on loan, only Guthrie has been playing in the top league. Others have been loaned out to lower division clubs. If they were good enough for Liverpool's first team right now, they would have been on loan to PL clubs like Guthrie has been.

[Craig_H]

Sure we can only speculate, but the average lot have barely made an impact, and i cant imagine the youngsters could do much worse.

As for Rafa seeing them in training, of course that's true...doesnt make him immune to poor judgement though.

[Skillz]

Sure we can only speculate, but the average lot have barely made an impact, and i cant imagine the youngsters could do much worse.

As for Rafa seeing them in training, of course that's true...doesnt make him immune to poor judgement though.

Personally been pretty happy with our new recruits this year, Crow has been poor after a good start but he was free. I am more disappointed in Kuyt, Riise, Carra, Kewell, Finnan on top of injuries to Agger, Alonso, Pennant, Kewell (qualifies in all the negatives, unfortunately).

New recruits have been very far away from one of my major concerns.