DIC latest - the largely wild speculation thread

[MattB]

but they pay interest on the 800 mill to buy the club whilst we pay interest on 650 mill to buy the club + the stadium. so we'll be in a similar situation with around 150mill less debt no? am i missing something?

I think you're missing the small matter of the level of income generated in order to service the debt. Having a bigger stadium would be a step in the right direction, but there's a lot more to it than that - sponsorship deals and merchandising to name a couple of things.

Bottom line is that the Mancs are the world's richest club (or thereabouts) and we are far from it. Therefore, they can afford to operate that way, and we can't.

It will take us years to catch up commercially, so where would the money to service the debt come from in the meantime?

[barnes10]

I think you're missing the small matter of the level of income generated in order to service the debt. Having a bigger stadium would be a step in the right direction, but there's a lot more to it than that - sponsorship deals and merchandising to name a couple of things.

Bottom line is that the Mancs are the world's richest club (or thereabouts) and we are far from it. Therefore, they can afford to operate that way, and we can't.

it will take us years to catch up commercially, so where would the money to service the debt come from in the meantime?

thats exactly what I'm talking about when I say an upgraded business model. all about marketing and merchandising etc to bring in the cash. so by the time the stadium arrives in 3 years, we should have improved our income dramatically both from the stadium and the other business activities. If arsenal can be close to utd then we should be able to be as well. For me our history, if marketed correctly is a huge asset to promote us. it shouldt take us that long to do but we do have to have success on the pitch at the same time.

how the debts are serviced in the meantime is exactly the connundrum and why DIC are the favoured choice assuming they guarantee it has zero impact (by clearing it off, taking it on or whatever they do). If Hicks can service the debts then what's the bottom line difference? If gilette was the reason the interest is to be paid by the club and if he is removed then surely our required transfer kitty need not be damaged.

[blacky]

thats exactly what I'm talking about when I say an upgraded business model. all about marketing and merchandising etc to bring in the cash. so by the time the stadium arrives in 3 years, we should have improved our income dramatically both from the stadium and the other business activities. If arsenal can be close to utd then we should be able to be as well. For me our history, if marketed correctly is a huge asset to promote us. it shouldt take us that long to do but we do have to have success on the pitch at the same time.

how the debts are serviced in the meantime is exactly the connundrum and why DIC are the favoured choice assuming they guarantee it has zero impact (by clearing it off, taking it on or whatever they do). If Hicks can service the debts then what's the bottom line difference? If gilette was the reason the interest is to be paid by the club and if he is removed then surely our required transfer kitty need not be damaged.

Sounds to me like you'd be happy enough if hicks stayed and the debt was serviced? What about 12 months of him running his mouth of in the press?

[MattB]

how the debts are serviced in the meantime is exactly the connundrum and why DIC are the favoured choice assuming they guarantee it has zero impact (by clearing it off, taking it on or whatever they do). If Hicks can service the debts then what's the bottom line difference? If gilette was the reason the interest is to be paid by the club and if he is removed then surely our required transfer kitty need not be damaged.

The difference is that DIC seem to be claiming that they would not use debt to buy the club - to the tune of £350m at the last count (I know, we've heard that before - but even if they did use debt, I bet they could get better credit than Hicks).

I don't have a problem using debt to finance the stadium - in fact it is the only sensible way to go for a load of reasons. However, for the next three years, as things stand, we will be paying back £28m a season in interest to pay for Hicks' purchase of the club. Bearing in mind our biggest profit in recent years was £9m those number simply do not stack up and that is why, on the face of it, there is no comparison between Hicks and DIC.

[barnes10]

So tell me why did Hicks lie about meeting Klinsmann

Why on the day he owned up to that did he deny trying to sell 15% to DIC

Lets ignore the numerous lies between then and last week and pick up when Hicks stated early last week that he had "never met DIC nor do I have any intention of meeting with them to discuss the sale of any stake in LFC" on ly to then send a letter thanking them for the previous meetings and requesting a further one

Gillett might be the problem financially he might be the reason the debt has been forced on the club (bearing in mind they both have a history of leveraged buy-outs I find it highly unlikely this has been forced on them) but Gillett hasnt been the one telling lies and getting caught lying thats solely down to Hicks

none of us can honestly answer these questions mate but when push comes to shove, I think they are immaterial. he's a brash lying texan that speaks before he thinks sure he does. i don't personally like that and its embarassing but its not our main problem. Indeed it may not have become a problem at all had the finiancing not been so tricky and tight which is seemingly Gilette's fault. This led to Rafa's issues and also the resumed interest from DIC he wants to fend off. Our main problem is financing and strategy to get to the top so given that we sold out when moores sold, I just want that and will deal with anything else as long as we get there.

managing a half billion pound asset that you genuinely want to keep and can maximise cannot be an easy game to play when you're the target of what is basically a hostile takeover. add a partner that is a dead weight and a weak link that could let the predators in and surely brinkmanship, lies and double dealing is to be expected is it not? I can't reconcile that situation with expecting a holier than thou approach.

yes he's a leveraged buyout specialist but again, given the 800 mill/650 mill comparison with utd, is there not room for that kind of buyout to actually work? we were so cheap that they can get away with this method of ownership. that's moores' fault not theirs surely. its also DIC's fault for not playing the game in the first place. Its cost them what, 200mill in 12 months?

and if ourselves and utd get asset stripped because we sold out to non-fan businessmen willing to do it (including DIC here), then that's our problem isnt it and too late for that now.

[barnes10]

The difference is that DIC seem to be claiming that they would not use debt to buy the club - to the tune of £350m at the last count (I know, we've heard that before - but even if they did use debt, I bet they could get better credit than Hicks).

I don't have a problem using debt to finance the stadium - in fact it is the only sensible way to go for a load of reasons. However, for the next three years, as things stand, we will be paying back £28m a season in interest to pay for Hicks' purchase of the club. Bearing in mind our biggest profit in recent years was £9m those number simply do not stack up and that is why, on the face of it, there is no comparison between Hicks and DIC.

"but even if they did use debt, I bet they could get better credit than Hicks" -this is something I suspect is true but don't know about and certainly don't know how much better rates they'd get. probably true but my whole thoughts around this today are on the basis that gilett is the weak link and that hicks is financially much stronger without him. and therefore would get better rates.

the loans are incurring an interest bill of 28mill a year yes. hicks may choose to take that hit for 2 or 3 years for all we know to get to the stadium completion. the structure of the debt, as above, could have been caused by giletts position not hicks'. so as earlier, we can compare DICs promises to what we have seen from the TH+GG partnership, but TH alone may be very different. And Rafa likes what he's heard.

[Pacman]

At the end of the day both Hicks and Gillett have uttered nothing but lies since they have became the self proclaimed custodians of Liverpool.

It's got to a stage where I can't trust anything they say and this is why I want them gone. DIC seem to be the only viable option at the minute and whilst they could be just as bad I doubt they could be any worse.

I don't think many if any fans have a problem with them loading debt on to the club to build a new stadium however loading the debt on the club to fund their purchase is unforgivable particulary when they said they wouldn't do this.

No matter how much Hicks & Gillett go on a charm offensive they wont be able to win me round. They have lied about talking to DIC, they have treated our manager like something you would scrape off the bottom of your shoe. They can't run a massive club from behind their huge desks 1000's of miles away and they seem to be doing nothing about this.

It's lie after lie and I'm sick of it.

[MattB]

TH alone may be very different. And Rafa likes what he's heard.

Hicks track record with the Texas Ranger, Dallas whatevertheyrecalled and Corinthians suggests otherwise.

Rafa, as I understand it, kept his job on condition that he never criticise Hicks etc in public again. He says what he is told to say these days. Has Rafa ever explicitly said he is impressed with Hicks?

[Tee]

Rafa clearly despises Hicks, and if you cannot see that already wash your eyes out.

[AFII]

At the end of the day both Hicks and Gillett have uttered nothing but lies since they have became the self proclaimed custodians of Liverpool.

It's got to a stage where I can't trust anything they say and this is why I want them gone. DIC seem to be the only viable option at the minute and whilst they could be just as bad I doubt they could be any worse.

I don't think many if any fans have a problem with them loading debt on to the club to build a new stadium however loading the debt on the club to fund their purchase is unforgivable particulary when they said they wouldn't do this.

No matter how much Hicks & Gillett go on a charm offensive they wont be able to win me round. They have lied about talking to DIC, they have treated our manager like something you would scrape off the bottom of your shoe. They can't run a massive club from behind their huge desks 1000's of miles away and they seem to be doing nothing about this.

It's lie after lie and I'm sick of it.

[Pacman]

but TH alone may be very different. And Rafa likes what he's heard.

But they will be lies.

[fred_plasticine]

DIC = Financial security
DIC have not bare faced lied

That's enough for me

the talked sweet about our club about making us great again while actually intedending to sell us on when their financial targets would have been reached. not actually bare faced lying i agree but double-crossing nontheless.

you want the current owner out? fair enough.
but dic are certainly not the answer.
the way they present themselves as the heroic saviours of lfc tells me keep away from them.

[barnes10]

At the end of the day both Hicks and Gillett have uttered nothing but lies since they have became the self proclaimed custodians of Liverpool.

It's got to a stage where I can't trust anything they say and this is why I want them gone. DIC seem to be the only viable option at the minute and whilst they could be just as bad I doubt they could be any worse.

I don't think many if any fans have a problem with them loading debt on to the club to build a new stadium however loading the debt on the club to fund their purchase is unforgivable particulary when they said they wouldn't do this.

No matter how much Hicks & Gillett go on a charm offensive they wont be able to win me round. They have lied about talking to DIC, they have treated our manager like something you would scrape off the bottom of your shoe. They can't run a massive club from behind their huge desks 1000's of miles away and they seem to be doing nothing about this.

It's lie after lie and I'm sick of it.

gg hasnt gone on a charm offensive. hicks has but he has deliberately blamed gg for the financial burden. maybe it means things would be v different, maybe not. who knows.

my gut feeling is the same as you guys - i want rid and i want the DIC we all hope they are to come to the rescue and take us to the top. im just exploring the impact of gg being the financial cripple. hicks a loudmouth texan for sure but I can take that if we succeed and maybe without gg onboard, we can do that under him.

[Tee]

the talked sweet about our club about making us great again while actually intedending to sell us on when their financial targets would have been reached. not actually bare faced lying i agree but double-crossing nontheless.

you want the current owner out? fair enough.
but dic are certainly not the answer.
the way they present themselves as the heroic saviours of lfc tells me keep away from them.

After the way they were treated they came back again and again confirming their desire to own this great club. They are fronted by a Liverpool Supporter and are backed by one of the wealthiest men in the world.

Give me them over those liars G&H any day of the week.

[Pacman]

gg hasnt gone on a charm offensive. hicks has but he has deliberately blamed gg for the financial burden. maybe it means things would be v different, maybe not. who knows.

my gut feeling is the same as you guys - i want rid and i want the DIC we all hope they are to come to the rescue and take us to the top. im just exploring the impact of gg being the financial cripple. hicks a loudmouth texan for sure but I can take that if we succeed and maybe without gg onboard, we can do that under him.

If my missus were to cheat on me she would be binned. I couldn't trust her anymore once you've lost the trust you've got nothing else. This is the same for Tom Hicks. He's told one to many lies for me to ever believe anything that comes out of his mouth. I pure and simple don't trust the bloke and never will. I'm not interested in what he can do without gillett, I don't care I just want him gone.