Rafa - is he any good? ;)

[akjs123]

we spent 25 million on leto, yossi, babel and lucas combined. we could have bought any of them 3 with change to spare in the summer. rafa got his priorities wrong, it had nothing to do with how much money he had.

The way transfers are conducted, a substantial amount of money for Lucas, Leto and Babel will be based on future appearances/performance related. So Rafa hasnt exactly shelled out 25m on them yet.
Also, if you were to know your facts, we were in for Malouda and Roma said they rejected a bid for Mancini from us.

[rage]

The way transfers are conducted, a substantial amount of money for Lucas, Leto and Babel will be based on future appearances/performance related. So Rafa hasnt exactly shelled out 25m on them yet.
Also, if you were to know your facts, we were in for Malouda and Roma said they rejected a bid for Mancini from us.

i know my facts, thats why i think babel was a panic buy.

and if we'd bought a winger for say 20 million or so the payment scheme would most likely have been structured in a similar way to as you describe.

IN any case Rafa is gone in the summer if Hicks stays and at most will have a season if DIC were to take over. Rafa will be lucky under DIC, in my opinion, to be able to spend as much as he has done this season.

Regardless of how anyone wants to describe our spending as net, gross or staged - this season he has bought in players worth close to 70 million. (torres 20m, masch 18m, babel 11m, yossi 6m, lucas 6m, skertl 5m, leto 2m) i doubt he'd be able to spend that sort of money over the two transfer windows next season under anyone.

[Woobus]

and if we'd bought a winger for say 20 million or so the payment scheme would most likely have been structured in a similar way to as you describe.

He tried to get a good winger but none were available, you cant just demand a player comes to you. If he had the proper backing then the quality of the players on the wings would be a lot better.
Cant really argue with his record when he does spend big, everyone makes mistakes and he normally gets back as much as he paid for a player or more.

[Jazzmaster]

i know my facts, thats why i think babel was a panic buy.

You're spot on. In fact that was one of the major issues in the falling out between Paco and Rafa.

Paco felt strongly that babel was a panic buy and going on babels season so far, he perhaps had a point. The lad has talent but his decision making is woeful. Time will tell.

[bobbyfallon]

i know my facts, thats why i think babel was a panic buy.

and if we'd bought a winger for say 20 million or so the payment scheme would most likely have been structured in a similar way to as you describe.

IN any case Rafa is gone in the summer if Hicks stays and at most will have a season if DIC were to take over. Rafa will be lucky under DIC, in my opinion, to be able to spend as much as he has done this season.

Regardless of how anyone wants to describe our spending as net, gross or staged - this season he has bought in players worth close to 70 million. (torres 20m, masch 18m, babel 11m, yossi 6m, lucas 6m, skertl 5m, leto 2m) i doubt he'd be able to spend that sort of money over the two transfer windows next season under anyone.

how can you disregard net spend??

it seems fairly obvious to me.

[fah-q]

Plus the Masher one is wrong. £1.5m LAST season and a lot of the rest includes his wages as well as transfer cost according to pretty solid sources.

[Morten_nogamst_Pedersen]

Plus the Masher one is wrong. £1.5m LAST season and a lot of the rest includes his wages as well as transfer cost according to pretty solid sources.

Does this mean were sort of "only" lending him for 4 or 5 years or so?

[bigfooty]

how can you disregard net spend??

Because we're not a "selling" club. We sell players when they are no longer required or don't fit into what the manager wants. There are maybe 1 or 2 exceptions to this since Rafa arrived, namely Owen due to his contract and King Luis as he was getting a bit homesick.

Those aside players that have gone have been those that weren't doing the job for us and that the vast majority of the fan base were happy to see the back of.

Rafa has done good business in some of those cases (Momo, Bellamy, Cisse and others fetching a decent price) but for me that's not an excuse for mediocre league performance.

[DannyMan2006]

Because we're not a "selling" club. We sell players when they are no longer required or don't fit into what the manager wants. There are maybe 1 or 2 exceptions to this since Rafa arrived, namely Owen due to his contract and King Luis as he was getting a bit homesick.

Those aside players that have gone have been those that weren't doing the job for us and that the vast majority of the fan base were happy to see the back of.

Rafa has done good business in some of those cases (Momo, Bellamy, Cisse and others fetching a decent price) but for me that's not an excuse for mediocre league performance.

?

Net spend is the only important factor as only with that do you know how much a manager has spent. Of course we will never know that, but can all make guesses what that figure is.

I think we all agree that Rafa would have done a better job with his first choice players, just like any manager would.

I think we all also agree that Rafa could have done a lot better with his spending when it comes to some of his purchases. He's had some good ones and not so good ones.

Another argument is his ability to get the best out of players over a long hard season.

I think he deserves another season under DIC.

[Jazzmaster]

?

Net spend is the only important factor as only with that do you know how much a manager has spent. Of course we will never know that, but can all make guesses what that figure is.

I think we all agree that Rafa would have done a better job with his first choice players, just like any manager would.

I think we all also agree that Rafa could have done a lot better with his spending when it comes to some of his purchases. He's had some good ones and not so good ones.

Another argument is his ability to get the best out of players over a long hard season.

I think he deserves another season under DIC.

Whether net spend is considered or not, this does not change the fact that rafa brought in players worth 60/70 million this season and has not been able to mount a title challenge. That is not a good reflection on the manager or his ability to get the best out of players.

[fah-q]

Does this mean were sort of "only" lending him for 4 or 5 years or so?

No

[barnes10]

so just because we want to recieve a good fee for anyone we do sell we are a selling club?

thats not right. and is p1ss poor business sense. so arsenal are a selling club because they ditch overmars, petit, henry and viera for large profits after getting the best out of them?

I'm delighted we can earn what we can from the likes of bellamy and sissoko.

if rafa has to buy quantity, then he has to be wise and when its time to upgrade, get some good money back. what's wrong with that?

1 more season with continued backing as he had this season and then there are no excuses. tbh im only willing to give that because this one has been so badly disrupted.

[Vermilion]

Whether net spend is considered or not, this does not change the fact that rafa brought in players worth 60/70 million this season and has not been able to mount a title challenge. That is not a good reflection on the manager or his ability to get the best out of players.

The Title challenge started well enough, i don't put Rafa's ability to get the best out of players at the top of the list as to why we have faultered.

I would bet that given money to bring players like Torres in each & EVERY year from now on, Rafa could very well get the best out of them, & consistently challenge & win the title, & more.

Rafa is STILL learning the Prem, I trust him to be fluent in it's way's in the future, other managers have taken as long & longer to master a new league, He'll get there, & with funding to buy top players to work with he'll bring us the Title too.

[Jan Molby]

]i know my facts[/I], thats why i think babel was a panic buy.

and if we'd bought a winger for say 20 million or so the payment scheme would most likely have been structured in a similar way to as you describe.

IN any case Rafa is gone in the summer if Hicks stays and at most will have a season if DIC were to take over. Rafa will be lucky under DIC, in my opinion, to be able to spend as much as he has done this season.

Regardless of how anyone wants to describe our spending as net, gross or staged - this season he has bought in players worth close to 70 million. (torres 20m, masch 18m, babel 11m, yossi 6m, lucas 6m, skertl 5m, leto 2m) i doubt he'd be able to spend that sort of money over the two transfer windows next season under anyone.

If you bought a new car for 6k and sold your old for 4k, can you work out your spend, or is your net/gross/or staged regardless????welcome to the bank of rage!
Hope you never enter the business world mate
For someone who "knows there facts", i would like to inform you that we haven't signed mascherano, and people in the real world, well all except you, tend to regard net spend as important.
And i don't doubt, that, for arguemants sake, rafa brings in up to 30m from selling players, that he will have 50 m to spend over 2 transfer windows, under anyone.

[akjs123]

Whether net spend is considered or not, this does not change the fact that rafa brought in players worth 60/70 million this season and has not been able to mount a title challenge. That is not a good reflection on the manager or his ability to get the best out of players.

One basic flaw in your argument. When a team buys players, it takes time for the players to gel and perform to their best. For how many years did Drogba performed like **** before he became brilliant? Did Adebayor perform last season like he has this season? What was Eduardo doing for the last six months? I could go on and on......