I think ive just lost my passion.

[Johnny]

-Some of his team selections this season have been baffling
-His effective use of substitutions is questionable
-His man management sometimes appears not to be the best
-It seems he may have lost the confidence of some senior players
-He is flagrantly 'over-coaching'
-He does not seem to have yet got fully to grips with "English football", 3 1/2 years on.

I'm not saying he should be winning us the title right now, but when a slump in form becomes an overall malaise round the club, eventually the manager's role in that has to come into question, even for his biggest fans.

I get all that Michael.but he`s arrived in english football at a time when Fergie and Jose/Avram can sign any player they want at whatever asking price demanded and when Wenger has had ten yrs to reap his youth policy program.Rafa makes his choices because he has a weaker squad and must rotate to keep our inferior players fresh.If he is given time with the proper backing and youths who are developing then theres every chance that he`ll be as good as Fergie or Wenger in the PL.3 1/2 yrs is not enough as Fergie and Wenger have proved.Jose just bought the title witout having to be a tactical genius.

[Johnny]

I can't see any other manager turning us around under the current state of affairs. We've just become as bad as Newcastle with fans demanding success immediately. We're on a bad patch, that's not to say that Rafa can't turn this around.

LFC as a club seems to be disjointed. We've got no god given right to say we should win everything. Success has to be earned and it's not down to the manager alone to share the blame for such a disastrous season.

The club (and by that I mean also us supporters) has to look at itself and see what's going wrong. It's all easy to blame the manager for chopping and changing and for playing players who aren't tough enough mentally to raise to the challenge.

I see it as a game of football. Gone are the days when my life revolved around LFC and LFC alone. We've lost ... So be it, we were bad. Man Utd won, great for them because they deserve it, they have a great team.

Taunts by Man Utd fans, I couldn't care less any more because I've become detached and take defeats such as this with a high degree of relativity now. I've got other things to bother, and while it hurts, I've got to deal with this with dignity much like the club has done during all these great years.

We've just got to look to the next game and hope it will be better and that the players will rectify things quickly. We must never lose faith. Leave the restlessness to other clubs.

Your best post ever,have five mate.

[MrMichael]

I get all that Michael.but he`s arrived in english football at a time when Fergie and Jose/Avram can sign any player they want at whatever asking price demanded and when Wenger has had ten yrs to reap his youth policy program.Rafa makes his choices because he has a weaker squad and must rotate to keep our inferior players fresh.If he is given time with the proper backing and youths who are developing then theres every chance that he`ll be as good as Fergie or Wenger in the PL.3 1/2 yrs is not enough as Fergie and Wenger have proved.Jose just bought the title witout having to be a tactical genius.

And I'm mostly with you on that mate, or at least, I was a lot longer than some, but you have to admit that there do seem to be cracks developing between the manager and his team at the moment.

Certainly, Rafa hasn't been able to spend money like ManU and Chelsea have. However, he has still had not inconsiderable backing in the transfer market in his time here. He's certainly has far more money than, say, Gollum has across Stanley Park.

I don't think its quite fair to see fans as demanding instant success when people are upset after 3 extremely poor FA cup performances, all against lower league opposition. Myself, as I said before in this thread, I wouldn't be so bothered if we appeared to have a plan, were developing a system and style but did not quite have the players to pull it off yet. We can't expect to win all the time, but we can expect to see players of the calibre of Gerrard, Mascherano and Torres playing in a team that is capable of both entertaining, and having some real direction and identity. Its the lack of that which is the most concerning to me. We have too many players underperforming, and no really stable system or common understandings on the pitch.

This season, on the basis of the squad we actually have, were we to be performing to a reasonable level we should probably have finsihed about 10 points off the title, and still been in with an outside shout up to the last half dozen games or so. Instead we were effectively out of it by Christmas, and ManCity (where Sven has had only months) and Everton are matching us. That is a concern, especially when set alongside some pretty awful performances in a few cup ties. We've played very well on occasion this season too, but we are not playing to our potential, and no matter how much you or I love him and believe he still could get it right at Anfield, Rafa really does have to take some genuine responsibility for that.

[-V-]

Its not just that though, its the whole thing. I'm sick of investment that never happens, sick of new stadiums that never get built, sick of Americans and Arabs, and especially, I'm completely sick of the media. It all just feels bland, and footy is nothing without passion, passion that I know I'm finding it hard to muster at the moment. Instead of cursing when they scored the winner earlier, I was nearer laughing instead.

That is what i found myself doing at around the 90th minute i turned round to the mrs and said Barnsley will score the winner as you could see it coming a mile off (Pitty our back 4 were the only ones who did not) When they scored i just sat back almost pissing myself with laughter.

Oh well atleast me mate Ricky scored the winner for Bristol today.

Do you know what, i literally WAS laughing. Laughing at how poor we have become. Not laughing joyfully ofcourse, just laughing coz i saw it coming and didnt want to walk off in a huff again

[Harv]

I can't see any other manager turning us around under the current state of affairs. We've just become as bad as Newcastle with fans demanding success immediately. We're on a bad patch, that's not to say that Rafa can't turn this around.

LFC as a club seems to be disjointed. We've got no god given right to say we should win everything. Success has to be earned and it's not down to the manager alone to share the blame for such a disastrous season.

The club (and by that I mean also us supporters) has to look at itself and see what's going wrong. It's all easy to blame the manager for chopping and changing and for playing players who aren't tough enough mentally to raise to the challenge.

I see it as a game of football. Gone are the days when my life revolved around LFC and LFC alone. We've lost ... So be it, we were bad. Man Utd won, great for them because they deserve it, they have a great team.

Taunts by Man Utd fans, I couldn't care less any more because I've become detached and take defeats such as this with a high degree of relativity now. I've got other things to bother, and while it hurts, I've got to deal with this with dignity much like the club has done during all these great years.

We've just got to look to the next game and hope it will be better and that the players will rectify things quickly. We must never lose faith. Leave the restlessness to other clubs.

Neither can i mate. Its become the culture at our club to accept this **** as the norm. The only way it can be banished is by selling pretty much the whole team core. Gerrard, Carra, Crouch, Xabi, Hyypia, Riise. They all seem to have stopped caring.

Rafa is a good manager, there is no doubt about that. He is a good person too, he knows how much this club means to us, and this will be eating him up inside. You can see his reactions when Riise aimlessly punts the ball upfield..he is just as pissed off as us.

I love Rafa, i dont want him to go. I fully believe that if anyone could bring us the title it is him.....but a major clear out is needed in this club. We need to start again, from scratch. No more left overs from Houlliers era. They were the ones that had this culture i speak of..which was carried over from Evans' Liverpool.

Im also finding it harder and harder to like Gerrard. He just looks like he doesn't care. Its like HE runs the club, he undermines Rafa in the changeroom, he also has too much of an ego. He would be first out the door if i was manager. He is no captain.

[Guest]

And I'm mostly with you on that mate, or at least, I was a lot longer than some, but you have to admit that there do seem to be cracks developing between the manager and his team at the moment.

Certainly, Rafa hasn't been able to spend money like ManU and Chelsea have. However, he has still had not inconsiderable backing in the transfer market in his time here. He's certainly has far more money than, say, Gollum has across Stanley Park.

I don't think its quite fair to see fans as demanding instant success when people are upset after 3 extremely poor FA cup performances, all against lower league opposition. Myself, as I said before in this thread, I wouldn't be so bothered if we appeared to have a plan, were developing a system and style but did not quite have the players to pull it off yet. We can't expect to win all the time, but we can expect to see players of the calibre of Gerrard, Mascherano and Torres playing in a team that is capable of both entertaining, and having some real direction and identity. Its the lack of that which is the most concerning to me. We have too many players underperforming, and no really stable system or common understandings on the pitch.

This season, on the basis of the squad we actually have, were we to be performing to a reasonable level we should probably have finsihed about 10 points off the title, and still been in with an outside shout up to the last half dozen games or so. Instead we were effectively out of it by Christmas, and ManCity (where Sven has had only months) and Everton are matching us. That is a concern, especially when set alongside some pretty awful performances in a few cup ties. We've played very well on occasion this season too, but we are not playing to our potential, and no matter how much you or I love him and believe he still could get it right at Anfield, Rafa really does have to take some genuine responsibility for that.

Of course he has to take responsibility Mike, but it's not down to him and him alone. He's made mistakes, sure, but name me a manager who is faultless.

It's a game of football at the end of the day. We lost but there's still matches to come and battles to be won. Rafa certainly, as a proud man, would want to be given the chance to rectify things. Now is not the time for supporters to turn against our manager.

Where has all of our beloved values gone ? YNWA is just a pipe dream sung by most supporters at the moment. Do they really believe what they're singing ? I think not.

[Johnny]

And I'm mostly with you on that mate, or at least, I was a lot longer than some, but you have to admit that there do seem to be cracks developing between the manager and his team at the moment.

Certainly, Rafa hasn't been able to spend money like ManU and Chelsea have. However, he has still had not inconsiderable backing in the transfer market in his time here. He's certainly has far more money than, say, Gollum has across Stanley Park.

I don't think its quite fair to see fans as demanding instant success when people are upset after 3 extremely poor FA cup performances, all against lower league opposition. Myself, as I said before in this thread, I wouldn't be so bothered if we appeared to have a plan, were developing a system and style but did not quite have the players to pull it off yet. We can't expect to win all the time, but we can expect to see players of the calibre of Gerrard, Mascherano and Torres playing in a team that is capable of both entertaining, and having some real direction and identity. Its the lack of that which is the most concerning to me. We have too many players underperforming, and no really stable system or common understandings on the pitch.

This season, on the basis of the squad we actually have, were we to be performing to a reasonable level we should probably have finsihed about 10 points off the title, and still been in with an outside shout up to the last half dozen games or so. Instead we were effectively out of it by Christmas, and ManCity (where Sven has had only months) and Everton are matching us. That is a concern, especially when set alongside some pretty awful performances in a few cup ties. We've played very well on occasion this season too, but we are not playing to our potential, and no matter how much you or I love him and believe he still could get it right at Anfield, Rafa really does have to take some genuine responsibility for that.

We had two draws against Chelsea which we should have won,ManU fluked a Tevez tap in and we led Arsenil for 80 minutes,we`ve had to field inferior teams just before CL games and Rafa has made mistakes.We could have had an extra 12 points this season if Rafa was allowed to buy the players he wanted,we`d be competing against the Top 3.

[Johnny]

Of course he has to take responsibility Mike, but it's not down to him and him alone. He's made mistakes, sure, but name me a manager who is faultless.

It's a game of football at the end of the day. We lost but there's still matches to come and battles to be won. Rafa certainly, as a proud man, would want to be given the chance to rectify things. Now is not the time for supporters to turn against our manager.

Where has all of our beloved values gone ? YNWA is just a pipe dream sung by most supporters at the moment. Do they really believe what they're singing ? I think not.

Jesus Fredo,stop being so reasonable,i`ll have to start agreeing with you more often.

[Guest]

Neither can i mate. Its become the culture at our club to accept this **** as the norm. The only way it can be banished is by selling pretty much the whole team core. Gerrard, Carra, Crouch, Xabi, Hyypia, Riise. They all seem to have stopped caring.

Rafa is a good manager, there is no doubt about that. He is a good person too, he knows how much this club means to us, and this will be eating him up inside. You can see his reactions when Riise aimlessly punts the ball upfield..he is just as pissed off as us.

I love Rafa, i dont want him to go. I fully believe that if anyone could bring us the title it is him.....but a major clear out is needed in this club. We need to start again, from scratch. No more left overs from Houlliers era. They were the ones that had this culture i speak of..which was carried over from Evans' Liverpool.

Im also finding it harder and harder to like Gerrard. He just looks like he doesn't care. Its like HE runs the club, he undermines Rafa in the changeroom, he also has too much of an ego. He would be first out the door if i was manager. He is no captain.

I don't think the team needs major surgery Harv. We've got the spine of a great team, we need more in attacking areas for sure, but these are the players who cost more money. Money wise, we're light years behind at the moment, and it's been like that for a long time.

It's been a disastrous season as soon as Rafa and the yanks started to have a go at each other, by via of the press. This ****e should have been dealt in the background and the players should have been spared all this cinema.

As soon as we all unite behind our team, supporters and players singing the same anthem and really believing it, that would be the time when we'll be going up again. I'm certain of it.

[Johnny]

I don't think the team needs major surgery Harv. We've got the spine of a great team, we need more in attacking areas for sure, but these are the players who cost more money. Money wise, we're light years behind at the moment, and it's been like that for a long time.

It's been a disastrous season as soon as Rafa and the yanks started to have a go at each other, by via of the press. This ****e should have been dealt in the background and the players should have been spared all this cinema.

As soon as we all unite behind our team, supporters and players singing the same anthem and really believing it, that would be the time when we'll be going up again. I'm certain of it.

God,I`ve got to do it again.



Here goes.

[MrMichael]

Of course he has to take responsibility Mike, but it's not down to him and him alone. He's made mistakes, sure, but name me a manager who is faultless.

It's a game of football at the end of the day. We lost but there's still matches to come and battles to be won. Rafa certainly, as a proud man, would want to be given the chance to rectify things. Now is not the time for supporters to turn against our manager.

Where has all of our beloved values gone ? YNWA is just a pipe dream sung by most supporters at the moment. Do they really believe what they're singing ? I think not.

Haha, I can't name you a manager who's faultless, and it does always annoy me coming on forums like these after games and reading how it was Rafa's tactics, or team selections, or substitutions, or one or two on-pitrch scapegoats at fault for everything, rather than the team as a whole instead.

I'm certainly not "turning against Rafa", I don't believe in sacking managers at this point of a season, full stop. All I'm saying is that, as far as those who blame Rafa for everything need to get a bit of perspective, so do those who tend to defend him to the hilt, even when he flagrantly is atleast partially at fault.

I can blame him for very little in the game yesterday. He selected about the best side available considering who we were playing, and the game next week, and I concurred with the subs - ultimately, what happened out there, on the pitch, was the fault of a bunch of over-paid players, not the manager. However, we've had about 10 of those performances this season. that makes it a pattern. And for that, somewhere, the management of the club is starting to look at fault for.

Btw, I'm starting to believe that we really will beat Inter. There's no club like lfc for taking its fans on a rollercoaster

[Johnny]

I'm certainly not "turning against Rafa", I don't believe in sacking managers at this point of a season, full stop. All I'm saying is that, as far as those who blame Rafa for everything need to get a bit of perspective, so do those who tend to defend him to the hilt, even when he flagrantly is atleast partially at fault.

How`s them splinters on your arse mate?

[MrMichael]

I don't think the team needs major surgery Harv. We've got the spine of a great team, we need more in attacking areas for sure, but these are the players who cost more money. Money wise, we're light years behind at the moment, and it's been like that for a long time.

It's been a disastrous season as soon as Rafa and the yanks started to have a go at each other, by via of the press. This ****e should have been dealt in the background and the players should have been spared all this cinema.

As soon as we all unite behind our team, supporters and players singing the same anthem and really believing it, that would be the time when we'll be going up again. I'm certain of it.

Couldn't agree with that middle paragraph any more dude

I'm not sure quite how accurate it is to say we're lightyears behind money-wise though. Well, no, that's wrong, we are pretty far behind Chelsea and ManU, and we're falling further behind Arsenal by the day probably. Howeverm we're also light-years ahead of every other team in the league in terms of spending over the past 4 seasons, I'm sure of it. And we aren't light years ahead of them on the pitch by any means, so by the same score, we shouldn't be light years bahind the others.......

Anyway, laudible sentiments Fredo, but its a chicken and egg senario, the fans aren;t right, the team's not right, the managers the owners, everything's just a bit screwed up at the moment, and its gonna take something pretty special to sort that out.

Moscow might......

[SB]

Cant disagree with any of these posts , I am starting to suffer from "same old same old" syndrome. It been coming for a few years now.

I'm done buying shirts and paying to watch on the TV, I even turned down tickets last two times I have been back to the UK.

Maybe just footie in general too, I'm done handing over my cash to line the pockets of players who just dont seem to really care.

After my wife complaining for the past 2 years that I watch football way too much, I've given in to her and I've decided to let my pay TV go.

Our poor results have affected my moods way too much and I think that my family deserve better.My alligance to the Reds will neverchange but I think that it's time to take a step backwards as something like a football match, which I have no control over, shouldn't dictate my feelings for the whole week. I need to get my life back.

[Guest]

Couldn't agree with that middle paragraph any more dude

I'm not sure quite how accurate it is to say we're lightyears behind money-wise though. Well, no, that's wrong, we are pretty far behind Chelsea and ManU, and we're falling further behind Arsenal by the day probably. Howeverm we're also light-years ahead of every other team in the league in terms of spending over the past 4 seasons, I'm sure of it. And we aren't light years ahead of them on the pitch by any means, so by the same score, we shouldn't be light years bahind the others.......

Anyway, laudible sentiments Fredo, but its a chicken and egg senario, the fans aren;t right, the team's not right, the managers the owners, everything's just a bit screwed up at the moment, and its gonna take something pretty special to sort that out.

Moscow might......

Well mate, you could be right.

But I'm certainly not being gullible because I'm sticking behind Rafa (no pun intended) during those tough times. The man has my ultimate support, and I'll be cheering the team out against Inter.

We must pull through this. Together and onwards. Leave the pointing of the finger for the end of the season.