McMahon: "Fans should protest against Rafa's rotation system"

[RedProf]

If the players are thinking "why should I bother", then I can give them 45,362 reasons why, and any player who has that qn in his mind when he goes out on the pitch lacks the moral fibre and integrity to play for Liverpool, and I'd sooner they left than Rafa.

I think this is such a pertinent point for the modern footballer. In th'old days, the footballer would go to the game on the bus with boots in his bag. He'd mix with the crowds, chat to the fans, play the game, then go the pub for a well earned pint with the fans. Obviously that's never going to happen now, nor has it happened for decades and decades. But I say it to illustrate the point of how the modern footballer is now more than ever removed from the day to day fan.

They live in their fantastic mansions with indoor swimming pool and 33 bathrooms, lead Hello style lifestyles with designer women and families. They drive around in giant 4x4's with blacked out windows. When they do go out, they may have the club's security guys making sure no average Jo's get into the VIP bit to harrass them. In short, they just don't come into contact with the fans enough.

Wouldn't it be just great, if just once, you could drag Stevie G or any team member to the Kop end and introduce him to each individual there and let him know a bit about each person and let him feel their passion for the club and the desire to win. Give him the motivation to play for these people. Of course it can't happen and is totally unfeasible, but I just wish somehow our players could genuinely re-connect to our fans, because clearly they aren't connected after some of the complete guff we've had to put up with this season.

[Dhav]

I think this is such a pertinent point for the modern footballer. In th'old days, the footballer would go to the game on the bus with boots in his bag. He'd mix with the crowds, chat to the fans, play the game, then go the pub for a well earned pint with the fans. Obviously that's never going to happen now, nor has it happened for decades and decades. But I say it to illustrate the point of how the modern footballer is now more than ever removed from the day to day fan.

They live in their fantastic mansions with indoor swimming pool and 33 bathrooms, lead Hello style lifestyles with designer women and families. They drive around in giant 4x4's with blacked out windows. When they do go out, they may have the club's security guys making sure no average Jo's get into the VIP bit to harrass them. In short, they just don't come into contact with the fans enough.

Wouldn't it be just great, if just once, you could drag Stevie G or any team member to the Kop end and introduce him to each individual there and let him know a bit about each person and let him feel their passion for the club and the desire to win. Give him the motivation to play for these people. Of course it can't happen and is totally unfeasible, but I just wish somehow our players could genuinely re-connect to our fans, because clearly they aren't connected after some of the complete guff we've had to put up with this season.

You know, you're spot on.

A colleague of mine attended a function at a hotel a few years ago that was also attended by the Leeds United squad, which included Viduka, Kewell et al. Now there were a lot of young kids there who wanted their autographs so they go rushing up to the players. Apparently Kewell was very accommodating, but Viduka literally told them to "**** off". And this is 8 year olds we're talking about. Premiership players are so lacking in humility and modesty these days, and it's not just even the superstar players.

[tomasjj]

McMahon....who laid into Rafa and zonal marking when we conceded from a set piece...forgetting that we conceded least goals from set pieces in the PL the season before and had a record defensive record.

He can do one. ******.

[robbielad9]

McMahon: "Fans should protest against Rafa's rotation system"


Robbielad: "Fans should protest against McMahon being a ****ing arrogant blue****e prick"

[Dhav]

McMahon....who laid into Rafa and zonal marking when we conceded from a set piece...forgetting that we conceded least goals from set pieces in the PL the season before and had a record defensive record.

He can do one. ******.

Yes, and...

McMahon: "Fans should protest against Rafa's rotation system"


Robbielad: "Fans should protest against McMahon being a ****ing arrogant blue****e prick"

Yes.

Obnoxious moron who could kindly just **** right off please. Respected him as a player but couldn't possibly have a lower of opinion of him than what I do now.

I used to have a high opinion of our players from the golden area, always thought of them as intelligent and knowledgeable chaps. But it is clear far too many of them are no sharper than the likes of Lou Macari and Paddy Crerand, they're tabloid pricks who tow the media-line

[Frank Leroux]

The rotation debate and in comparison with how others managers use it is irrelevant.

The way Benitez rotates means that players have no incentive to perform, because play well or poorly, it's no guarantee they will or won't be picked for the next game.

And as a result players have no form and the team has no cohesion.

It's a problem all of the managers own doing and results like yesterday merely give more ammo to the doubters.

And I think it's unfair to blame a media bandwagon on this one, if we were top of the league nothing would be said about it. But let's be honest, it's part of the reason we're miles away.

Great, succinct post, CMS.

[CAD]

Show me players lacking motivation because of Rafa's rotation system and I will show you gutless people lacking professional pride and integrity. In these circumstance I blame the players as much if not more than the manager.

Accept the lack of cohesion argument, and I've been saying for a few weeks now that in the face of a rut of form we need to be playing a settled line-up and formation to build understanding, confidence amongst the players.

But talk of being wrong to rest Gerrard, you play your strongest team v Barnsely etc, is media towing, bandwagon jumping nonsense, and sadly some of our former players are amongst the most guilty parties.

A manager needs to be able to motivate. I had a job where I made a lot of money and over time I lost all motivation because of poor management. It's the same in every major or small cooperation. There is a reason why companies spend millions on Team-building etc. You have to know when to use the carrot and when the whip is in order. I still remember that story about Gerrard comming up to Rafa after his 23 goal season and asking for a little credit and all Rafa could say was: You can do better. That's not the right way to motivate a player in my world. Not even close. I understand that you don't want to become complacent but Rafa seems too focused for his own good. If this behavior reflects the day to day order of business at Melwood I can certainly understand why some players, over a period of time, could become fatigued mentally.

A great coach will be able to form a unity among the players. The president of Madrid said that about Bernd Schuster. He saw a unity in the squad that had not been there for ages. People were having fun while performing. Calderón spoke about how everybody were present with their families at the annual Christmas lunch and that he havn't seen that kind of unity in the squad for ages. Under Capello only the players went for the lunch. They sat there in silence and all left asap. We seem to have lost the unity. Whether you believe in the "great distance Rafa/Capello" approach or the Schuster approach where the manager is almost friends with the players you need balance. I think Rafa is too much distance and zero arm around the shoulder. Selling all players who can't cope with that kind of management makes no sense to me. Look at what Fergie has done with Ronaldo. That's first class player management and we need more of this. Maybe that's what Paco brought and maybe that's why we suffer now. The communication between the squad and management went out the window with Paco.

If Rafa is too one-dimensional in his player approach he needs to make sure of one thing and that is that he's pulling in the results to justify his approach and he isn't.

You are talking about players who has never in the past undermined the manager. If it's happening now it's says more about the manager than about the players in my book.

[Morten_nogamst_Pedersen]

You are talking about players who has never in the past undermined the manager. If it's happening now it's says more about the manager than about the players in my book.

Sound point.

[Frank Leroux]

A manager needs to be able to motivate. I had a job where I made a lot of money and over time I lost all motivation because of poor management. It's the same in every major or small cooperation. There is a reason why companies spend millions on Team-building etc. You have to know when to use the carrot and when the whip is in order. I still remember that story about Gerrard comming up to Rafa after his 23 goal season and asking for a little credit and all Rafa could say was: You can do better. That's not the right way to motivate a player in my world. Not even close. I understand that you don't want to become complacent but Rafa seems too focused for his own good. If this behavior reflects the day to day order of business at Melwood I can certainly understand why some players, over a period of time, could become fatigued mentally.

A great coach will be able to form a unity among the players. The president of Madrid said that about Bernd Schuster. He saw a unity in the squad that had not been there for ages. People were having fun while performing. Calderón spoke about how everybody were present with their families at the annual Christmas lunch and that he havn't seen that kind of unity in the squad for ages. Under Capello only the players went for the lunch. They sat there in silence and all left asap. We seem to have lost the unity. Whether you believe in the "great distance Rafa/Capello" approach or the Schuster approach where the manager is almost friends with the players you need balance. I think Rafa is too much distance and zero arm around the shoulder. Selling all players who can't cope with that kind of management makes no sense to me. Look at what Fergie has done with Ronaldo. That's first class player management and we need more of this. Maybe that's what Paco brought and maybe that's why we suffer now. The communication between the squad and management went out the window with Paco.

If Rafa is too one-dimensional in his player approach he needs to make sure of one thing and that is that he's pulling in the results to justify his approach and he isn't.

You are talking about players who has never in the past undermined the manager. If it's happening now it's says more about the manager than about the players in my book.

And again, great post CAD.

I think we have to consider the possibility that the/some players just don't believe in what the manager is doing and/or his methods. There doesn't appear to be the togetherness which (even under Grant) Chelsea, Utd or Arsenal have. This has to be a big part of a top managers role.

Players are human. They need motivation, they need it in different ways. Some of them (Babel, Benayoun, Gerrard) need to be loved, to be 'upped' - in private and public. Some (Finnan, Carragher, Alonso) just need the occassional acknowledgement of their real worth to the club.

The apparent distanced, scientific, analytical approach that Benitez brings to his management style just doesn't allow for these 'soft' skills.

[CAD]

Sound point.

And again, great post CAD.

I think we have to consider the possibility that the/some players just don't believe in what the manager is doing and/or his methods. There doesn't appear to be the togetherness which (even under Grant) Chelsea, Utd or Arsenal have. This has to be a big part of a top managers role.

Players are human. They need motivation, they need it in different ways. Some of them (Babel, Benayoun, Gerrard) need to be loved, to be 'upped' - in private and public. Some (Finnan, Carragher, Alonso) just need the occassional acknowledgement of their real worth to the club.

The apparent distanced, scientific, analytical approach that Benitez brings to his management style just doesn't allow for these 'soft' skills.

Cheers Frank

Spot on. If you know that you have zero people skill you better make damn sure that you have people around you who can handle that for you. Rafa's only comment about Paco was that he didn't really need him and there would be no new number two! I think that might have been his biggest mistake during his reign. A miscalculation of epic proportion.

Maureen, Fergie and Wenger all know how to get the most out of their players. It seems that Rafa is losing out with his Terminator approach.

It makes absolutely no difference how much a player earns. He's still human at the end of the day. It's the same in any major club. If you see a possible revolt in a squad on a massive scale you have to look at the manager. Anything else is ludicrous.

[Dhav]

He does desperately needs a number 2 yes, as much for the players as for himself. If he cant see that then...

[CAD]

He does desperately needs a number 2 yes, as much for the players as for himself. If he cant see that then...

I'm pretty sure he said that he didn't

[Sarb]

He did. Around the time his stubborness started to shine through. He thinks he can do it all, but quite frankly he can't. Miller just appears to be a yes man. No one to disagree with Rafa or give an alternative view.

[saveferris]

His only response at the time was that he was "currently happy with his staff"

[Parm]

Ok ,say we do protest at the rotation, what good would it do? it would serve no purpose other than washing more dirty laundry in public.
I think the players hsould already be motivated by the fact that at Liverpool they do have a chance to be contending in big games and with a chance of winning trophies.This is why they come to us.