For those that WANT Rafa gone.

[Fierce]

No its easier to sack a manager who's taken the club to 2 CL finals in 3 years and who has had to settle for 2nd and 3rd choice players because the club cant afford his 1st choices. For all we know know rafa was promised the world and has been given jack ****. Rafa was all go after 6-0 against Derby and the 8-0 against Betsikas. This is the same side that scored 21 goal in 4 games. Whats happened? have they all lost their skill and ability? No. Thats right its all the managers fault. Sulky senior players who dont like what the managers doing more like it. Since when has one or two players been more important than the team?

If Torres played against Barnsley and got injured you would be carrying on like a pork chop blaming rafa for playing him in 5th round cup tie against a 2nd division side. Facts is he put out a side that should have creamed them because player for player we are simply much better. How did crouch miss that open goal? rafa's fault. why did their goalie play the best game he is ever likely to play? rafa's fault. Why did carragher twist away like a nancy boy instead of shutting down howards shot? why didnt alonso fling himself at the ball instead of limply surrendering possession? 'We're saving oursleves for Inter-Milan'. Bollocks to Inter. Youre only as good as your last result as a great man once said.

[Skillz]

And this season, he'll finish 25 points off the top...progress?

you do not know that

Mitigating circumstances.

Many factors IMO, key injuries, Pako, owners, players mind set, Rafa's mind set.

Rafa thinks football is a science. Whats your point?

Well if he does it has proven to be very successfull for him.

I dont want a replacement. I want a number 2 appointed. That is the key IMO.

It is a major key but not the only one. Would of helped over the last couple of months though no doubt, providing he was capable. I actually want a no 2 that is has strong attacking credentials. This is where Rafa is faltering in the league IMO.

[Skillz]

No its easier to sack a manager who's taken the club to 2 CL finals in 3 years and who has had to settle for 2nd and 3rd choice players because the club cant afford his 1st choices. For all we know know rafa was promised the world and has been given jack ****. Rafa was all go after 6-0 against Derby and the 8-0 against Betsikas. This is the same side that scored 21 goal in 4 games. Whats happened? have they all lost their skill and ability? No. Thats right its all the managers fault. Sulky senior players who dont like what the managers doing more like it. Since when has one or two players been more important than the team?

If Torres played against Barnsley and got injured you would be carrying on like a pork chop blaming rafa for playing him in 5th round cup tie against a 2nd division side. Facts is he put out a side that should have creamed them because player for player we are simply much better. How did crouch miss that open goal? rafa's fault. why did their goalie play the best game he is ever likely to play? rafa's fault. Why did carragher twist away like a nancy boy instead of shutting down howards shot? why didnt alonso fling himself at the ball instead of limply surrendering possession? 'We're saving oursleves for Inter-Milan'. Bollocks to Inter. Youre only as good as your last result as a great man once said.

Spot on. Rafa's rotation system makes him an easy target for the media and the boo boys lap it up as well.

[Vermilion]

No its easier to sack a manager who's taken the club to 2 CL finals in 3 years and who has had to settle for 2nd and 3rd choice players because the club cant afford his 1st choices. For all we know know rafa was promised the world and has been given jack ****. Rafa was all go after 6-0 against Derby and the 8-0 against Betsikas. This is the same side that scored 21 goal in 4 games. Whats happened? have they all lost their skill and ability? No. Thats right its all the managers fault. Sulky senior players who dont like what the managers doing more like it. Since when has one or two players been more important than the team?

If Torres played against Barnsley and got injured you would be carrying on like a pork chop blaming rafa for playing him in 5th round cup tie against a 2nd division side. Facts is he put out a side that should have creamed them because player for player we are simply much better. How did crouch miss that open goal? rafa's fault. why did their goalie play the best game he is ever likely to play? rafa's fault. Why did carragher twist away like a nancy boy instead of shutting down howards shot? why didnt alonso fling himself at the ball instead of limply surrendering possession? 'We're saving oursleves for Inter-Milan'. Bollocks to Inter. Youre only as good as your last result as a great man once said.

YOUR SO RIGHT. I applaud your logic & plain common sense.

[Pacman]

I don't want him gone.

I'm as pissed off as anyone at the minute however I don't think sacking the manager is the answer.

Rafa can do wrong, Rafa does make mistakes, Rafa has to take a large part of the blame for this seasons slump however sacking the manager IMO is the easy option.

Saturdays result isn't acceptable and Rafa knows this. It's hard to defend the manager over the past couple of months and people are entitled to moan and criticise however the fact remains he was won the CL, got us to another final, won the FA Cup, super cup etc. I actually have faith that he will turn it round, I believe he will get it right. He may have lost a lot of fans but he hasn't lost me.

The whole staff of Liverpool Football Club need to take a good long look at themselves and this includes the manager. The players need to shoulder the blame as well.

[Kenneth]

Am not arguing over these sentiments mate, I'm just saying that it's not as black and white. I think that it's been a season of instability which haven't helped the team perform to the best of it's ability.

As for the attractive football bit, we were playing some wonderful stuff at the start of the season until something went wrong. Something has been broken and until we know what it is, we must try to remain sensible until things improve.

Our motivator left and Rafa has been found out without him.

[Guest]

Our motivator left and Rafa has been found out without him.

How do you know that ?

Players should not need to be motivated. Playing for trophies should be enough. That's a ridiculous comment mate, and I think Howard_lfc made the same point earlier in this thread.

[AFII]

Are you that blind? Of course we accept it- we're not ****ing stupid, we haven't won the league in nearly 20years. Of course we don't have a devine right to win things. But that's it right there. When we were great we were great cause we worked hard, we showed some ruthlessness on the pitch and we didn't think we were the best we ****ing knew it. Our ball retention and distribution was superb. Don't tell me the games become that much different and faster that those players can't pass and keep the ball? If they can they can they should be encouraged to do so and trained in that way. If they can't then what the **** has Rafa been doing buying and persisting with the same ****e?!

it's not about a god given right to win things. Arsenal haven't got near a trophy in 3 years- do you hear them moaning about Wenger? NO! Want to know why? cause they can clearly see that Wenger is always doing the right things, they play positive attractive football and lokk strong in competitions.

I want Benitez gone cause he clearly hasn't got what it takes to make a challenege or a proper one at least. It's nothing personal against Rafa cause he's a nice guy, he seems quite honest after the games and he genuinely hurts when we lose. Then again so do I but that doesn't mean i'm the best man for the job.

but don't be going on about us who want benitez out thinking we have a devine right to win- that's simply not it but for all that money every ****ing game we do have devine right to demand attacking attractive football and if the manager and players (those overpaid wasters take a large share of the blame here as well) can't deliver then they need to go.

You do know that when we were great we smashed the brittish transfer record several times?

[Vermilion]

Our motivator left and Rafa has been found out without him.

Word's like "Rafa has been Found out" are just plain Daft. I don't see Paco going as the problem, just part of it, a part Rafa could handle without all the other **** going on behind the scenes.

If people dont think all the turbulance & uncertainty surrounding our club does'nt have an effect then they imo are very wrong, Only when it's settled can we Truly move on.

[AFII]

Rafa and Pako got to two cl finals, came third above arsenal on goal difference etc. Rafa without Pako has produced a very very **** season. In fact it wasn't **** right up to the point when Pako left. Rafa as a one man band has virtually no track record.

Hence the comment that Rafa as a one man band has virtually no track record.

You can look what happened at United when Quiroz left. They had a "very bad" season and only recovered when he got back.

Rafa should still get the chance to get in a good enough number two and be backed in the transfer market. If he don't deliver after that then it's time to look for a new manager.

[carlton]

And this season, he'll finish 25 points off the top...progress?

I can cope with finishing 25 points behind if the team gives 100% and will put their bodies on the line for the club no matter who we are playing. I have watched that last 20 seconds against the Tykes over and over again and its heartbreaking not cos of the goal but the insipid efforts of 3 LFC greats.

[The Birdman]

I honestly think a lot of our problem is linked to confidence and disrtibution from defence. Carra's passing is ****, Gallas, Toure, Carvaliho, Terry, Vidic, Ferdinand can all pass the ball 10-15 yards to a team mate, Carra launches is aimlessly forward, Riise is one of the worst Liverpool players I've seen in 25 years in terms of his decision making and selection of pass, invariably he just launches it as well, Finnan is neat and tidy, Arbeloa and Aurellio are confident in possession but we don't build attacks, we don't 'pass and move' or stretch teams anymore, the best teams in the league retain possession.

[carlton]

I honestly think a lot of our problem is linked to confidence and disrtibution from defence. Carra's passing is ****, Gallas, Toure, Carvaliho, Terry, Vidic, Ferdinand can all pass the ball 10-15 yards to a team mate, Carra launches is aimlessly forward, Riise is one of the worst Liverpool players I've seen in 25 years in terms of his decision making and selection of pass, invariably he just launches it as well, Finnan is neat and tidy, Arbeloa and Aurellio are confident in possession but we don't build attacks, we don't 'pass and move' or stretch teams anymore, the best teams in the league retain possession.

Dont get me started on riise mate He's a plague.

[AFII]

I can cope with finishing 25 points behind if the team gives 100% and will put their bodies on the line for the club no matter who we are playing. I have watched that last 20 seconds against the Tykes over and over again and its heartbreaking not cos of the goal but the insipid efforts of 3 LFC greats.

You could almost start to believe that we let in their second goal on purpose and that the game was fixed.

We let the Barnsley player have a free run and first we tried to get them a penalty, it was a clear cut penalty by the way, and then we let him have a free walk outside the box and didn't even try to take the ball from him.

Almost like we were desperate to lose the game and we tried to help them in any way that we could.

The game was probably not fixed but you never know.

[carlton]

You could almost start to believe that we let in their second goal on purpose and that the game was fixed.

We let the Barnsley player have a free run and first we tried to get them a penalty, it was a clear cut penalty by the way, and then we let him have a free walk outside the box and didn't even try to take the ball from him.

Almost like we were desperate to lose the game and we tried to help them in any way that we could.

The game was probably not fixed but you never know.

Playing riise and kewell gives some weight to you theory too.