Have our players improved under Rafa?

[Marky]

Gerrard and Carragher in particular have improved ****loads under Rafa.

[Jazzmaster]

Defensively yes, Offensively no. Midfieldsively, debatable.

[Barnyard]

Defensively yes, Offensively no. Midfieldsively, debatable.

[fah-q]

is it about champions league finals though? Its been done to death but we're not exactly improving in the league. Turn it around, is finishing 5th in 2 seasons out of 5 acceptable?

Well we haven't finished 5th for the 2nd time yet and in the interests of balance you should also mention we have finished 3rd twice in that time.

[macca_82]

I think it's fair to say that the likes of babel and torres will only improve if they are given consistant opportunities to do so. Both have a lot of talent and it would be a crime if it was left to go to waste. The likes of pennant will never improve because there wasn't much to build on anyway. If he learns to cross a ball then I will say there has been an improvement. Alonso is still wanted by barcelona so they have obviously seen something to warrent a bid. Rafa is a good manager but i think some players have lost confidence and been going thorugh the motions for too long.

[Nic83]

Hard to say as players get better automatically with age and experience and opposite goes for people like Sami who decline with age.

So if we look at the players in the middle of thei careers:

Gerrard - same, up and down like a yo yo in form

Carra - IMO, he had his bet couple of years under Rafa, this year he's been a bit dodge though

Finnan -same

Riise - massive decline. Don't know why, it doesn't look like Rafa is putting him on a leash. Maybe his training methods don't suit Riise.

Alonso - injuries have hampered. His first seasn under Rafa was quality

Masher - showing his best form for us just now. Form like he shows for the Argies

Pennant - same

Benayoun - same

Kewell- muck on a stick but the decline started under Houllier I think

Voronin - was always ****

Kuyt - Well, it's not often you see someone dip so much in form from one season to the next

Crouch - improved actually

Torres - improving all the time

[lucas10]

is it about champions league finals though? Its been done to death but we're not exactly improving in the league. Turn it around, is finishing 5th in 2 seasons out of 5 acceptable?

Our expectation has risen so much that it does not tally with net transfer spending. Liverpool is not spending significantly more than Manchester United and Chelsea in the last summer. Why are we living in the lies of the American?

Other than Torres and Babel, we have not invested anything significant for the past 3 years. Sad to say, there are not too many cases like Cristiano Ronaldo whom was bought for less than 10 million and developed into a Match Winner.

We will be lucky if we have one out of those potential (Babel, Lucas, Pacheco and etc) developed into an influential player.

Genius are probably natural born and not coached.

[AFII]

but have we ever come close to emulating what valencia were like? When they played us at anfield they played us off the park in every position, we were out fought and out thought. They were much more skillful and much fitter - and the important thing for me was they kept the ball on the ground and played "pass and move". We all salivated when rafa becamse manager based on what he had achieved at valencia. I'm not convinved we've seen a similar style at liverpool.

They had Aimar, we don't have any playmaker that is even close to how excellent he was back then. We are missing the attacking player that will dictate the tempo and spread passes around. When we get that type of player then we will be able to keep the ball better and put more pressure on our opponent.

Our players have improved under Rafa, we are just missing a few players and that means that we will be more easy to read.

Get in the attacking playmaker, a right fullback and two wingers then we will play better and give Rafa more options and that in return will mean that we will be more difficult to read.

Right now our central midfielders don't really have the option to use our wings and that will make them look worse than they really are because their options are limited to the middle when they search to someone to pass the ball to.

Another point is that our movement off the ball has been rubbish the last few months and that also make our creative players look worse than they really are.

Xabi is probably the one that suffered the most because of that.

[Joe King]

Another point is that our movement off the ball has been rubbish the last few months and that also make our creative players look worse than they really are.

So true. If you want to see movement off the ball and quick one-twos, passes round the corner, watch Arsenal.

[Cormack74]

surely part of the managers job is to ensure that the players improve their technical skills as well as setting them up tactically for the next game?

Agreed Mate, I wasn't for one moment condoning coaching that's weighted entirely towards organisation at the expense of technical development.