In defence of Rafael BenÍtez: statistics point out why he should stay

[AFII]

That's nonsense, I'm afraid, and just another excuse. We finished ahead of Arsenal twice in three seasons.

Our core group of players is more than capable of putting in a credible title challenge.

Our problems are down to attitude and mentality, and the managers restrictive, cautious methods.

We should be able to match Arsenal yes, at least this season but not Man U or Chelsea because they simply have so much more money than us. We can sign maybe one £15m+ player a season, they can sign four or five if they want to and they have done that for years.

So third place was a realistic target this season.

[el matador]

Not sure where you're getting that Chelsea have so many great players. I'd take 2 or 3, tops. But they're a good, functioning team.

The term "world class" should be banned anyway. It means nothing.

Arsenal top the league, 8 points ahead of Chelsea and all their "world class" players, end of story.

Anyone can buy the league, but that's not we're about. It's also about coaching and spotting cheaper talent and getting the best out of them.

If you look at our under 18s and reserve teams they're all doing ok. So in that department benitez has done good no ?

[terrymac]

We should be able to match Arsenal yes, at least this season but not Man U or Chelsea because they simply have so much more money than us. We can sign maybe one £15m+ player a season, they can sign four or five if they want to and they have done that for years.

Read that back to yourself slowly.

[NICKZS]

That's nonsense, I'm afraid, and just another excuse. We finished ahead of Arsenal twice in three seasons.

Our core group of players is more than capable of putting in a credible title challenge.

Our problems are down to attitude and mentality, and the managers restrictive, cautious methods.

Nonsense? How can you argue with what he is saying? United have a better squad than us, it's as simple as that. They have quality running through the team and are able to "rotate" (if you want to call it that) world-class wingers with £17m+ prospects. We are operating with players picked up on frees and hanging onto the hope that ageing members of the squad suddenly re-discover form.

I think your comment about Arsenal also shows a lack of consideration for the way their team has developed over that 2 season period and serves to contradict your viewpoint that we have an equally talented array of players; their squad has improved, ours generally hasn't improved that much. This isn't an excuse for Benitez, it's just simply the case: that we do not have as good a squad as the other three.

[AFII]

The good enough players in a starting XI if we want to challenge for the title....

--------------------Reina
????---------????----------Agger------????
------------Masch---------????----------
-----Gerrard--------????---------????
--------------------Torres-----------------

Carra hasn't been good enough this season but if he can show the class he had last season then he would make the starting XI and it's to early to judge Skrtel and Lucas.

A lot of holes in that starting XI.

[terrymac]

Nonsense? How can you argue with what he is saying? United have a better squad than us, it's as simple as that. They have quality running through the team and are able to "rotate" (if you want to call it that) world-class wingers with £17m+ prospects. We are operating with players picked up on frees and hanging onto the hope that ageing members of the squad suddenly re-discover form.

I think your comment about Arsenal also shows a lack of consideration for the way their team has developed over that 2 season period and serves to contradict your viewpoint that we have an equally talented array of players; their squad has improved, ours generally hasn't improved that much. This isn't an excuse for Benitez, it's just simply the case: that we do not have as good a squad as the other three.

I don't know where to start with this apologist bollocks.

Our current team cost a fortune and is packed full of top class players, compared to Arsenal who have spent **** all in comparison, and up until this season had a team of unknowns.

If the manager can't build a title CHALLENGING squad after 4 seasons and 150 odd million spent, then maybe money isn't the real issue.

[NICKZS]

I don't know where to start with this apologist bollocks.

Our current team cost a fortune and is packed full of top class players, compared to Arsenal who have spent **** all in comparison, and up until this season had a team of unknowns.

If the manager can't build a title CHALLENGING squad after 4 seasons and 150 odd million spent, then maybe money isn't the real issue.

Well that's a different issue isn't it? Where did I start talking about the manager's ability to build a squad? Are you just going to switch argument and contradict yourself every time your case doesn't stack up?

On one hand you are saying the squad is good enough. On the other you say the manager's ability to build a squad should be called into question. Which is it?

Just to make this clear: I do not think the squad is good enough. Is that OK?

[el matador]

I don't know where to start with this apologist bollocks.

Our current team cost a fortune and is packed full of top class players, compared to Arsenal who have spent **** all in comparison, and up until this season had a team of unknowns.

If the manager can't build a title CHALLENGING squad after 4 seasons and 150 odd million spent, then maybe money isn't the real issue.

There is no question that there are some issues surrounding rafa but if you are denying that we dont have a squad on the same levels of quality than united and chelsea then im afraid something is wrong.

Rafa has had a budget of 20-25m per season and united and chelsea have consistently spend over £20m on one player alone. You cant buy a top class right winger with £20m and then a defender and a left midfielder too. This is the first season where he has spent big but then only a net spend of around £20m (exc masher).

[AFII]

I don't know where to start with this apologist bollocks.

Our current team cost a fortune and is packed full of top class players, compared to Arsenal who have spent **** all in comparison, and up until this season had a team of unknowns.

If the manager can't build a title CHALLENGING squad after 4 seasons and 150 odd million spent, then maybe money isn't the real issue.

He hasn't spent £150m net, if you don't give a **** about all the players that the clubs sell then Arsenal would probably have spent more than us. What makes Wenger excellent in the transfer market is that his net spend is very low.

Wenger have had 10 years to build his squad from top to bottom, including their youth team.

[terrymac]

Can you not understand plain English? I'm saying the squad is good enough but there are more fundamental issues other than the usual excuses like money and comparisons to richer clubs as to why we are not at least challenging for the league and never have done under Benitez.

[terrymac]

He hasn't spent £150m net

Haha, the dreaded net spend.

[el matador]

Can you not understand plain English? I'm saying the squad is good enough but there are more fundamental issues other than the usual excuses like money and comparisons to richer clubs as to why we are not at least challenging for the league and never have done under Benitez.

but you're wrong the squad ISNT good enough.

[AFII]

Haha, the dreaded net spend.

Well, it was you that brought the dreaded net spend up.....

compared to Arsenal who have spent **** all in comparison

[terrymac]

but you're wrong the squad ISNT good enough.

I'm not even getting into this simplistic bollocks.

[NICKZS]

Can you not understand plain English? I'm saying the squad is good enough but there are more fundamental issues other than the usual excuses like money and comparisons to richer clubs as to why we are not at least challenging for the league and never have done under Benitez.

And I'm disagreeing, but somewhere that has been lost in the tumult.

You're deluded if you think our team is as good as the likes of Man U's. Why does thinking that our team is not good enough make you an apologist? Because you automatically assume that people aren't blaming Benitez for that?

For what it's worth (very little considering the fantastic discourse you are providing) I think it's a combination of various factors including aspects of Benitez's management coupled with the weaknesses that are glaringly obvious in the squad.