Winning the Champs L would be no consolation for another terrible season, rages Ste G

[Craig_H]

If only footy was so simple. Buy the best players = win the league.

It's about winning games, which is about sticking the ball in the net - something we have struggled to do even when dominating games.

Guess which game these comments followed:

"But you have to take your chances. We created plenty, enough to have won, but we didn't convert them, and only have ourselves to blame for that."

Liverpool played the better football, but as Gerrard conceded, they paid a heavy price for failing to take their opportunities.

So why hasnt rafa bought players who can stick the ball in the net?

All we do is make one excuse after another. I dont see anyone saying "well rafa has messed up there" or "rafa's got that wrong"...etc.

RCDNW.

[MattB]

So why hasnt rafa bought players who can stick the ball in the net?

All we do is make one excuse after another. I dont see anyone saying "well rafa has messed up there" or "rafa's got that wrong"...etc.

RCDNW.

Torres? The most important thing in developing a title winning side, in my opinion of course, is developing a winning mentality - which takes time.

Some of the Liverpool sides of the 80s (as Jocky has pointed out in the past) were not the best teams. But they still won the league. Because that is what they did year in year out

Problem is that developing that winning habit is a function of winning consistently for a long time. I think we are developing and moving in the right direction. We have lost fewer games this season than in any other recent season, but have drawn too many. That, I think has to do with confidence. If you are going through a sticky patch and things aren't always going your way, when you get in front the natural, though subconsious, tendency is to think 'right we are in front' and try to protect the lead. That inevitably hands the initiative to the opposition and makes you play the game differently. More often than not, that scenario leads to conceding - and how often have we seen that this season?

How do you fix that? **** knows. But I do know that a team with Torres in, one year on will have a better chance than this year.

As I said, there's a lot more to it than just players and tactics.

By the way, the quote in my last post was from the match report from last years CL final

[MattB]

RCDNW.

And by the way, I do NOT think Rafa can do no wrong. of course he can, and does. He is human after all. But to suggest that we are no better off than under Houllier is ludicrous

[kop-al-74]

No no....forget the title.

Is the squad comfortably good enough to finish 4th, without a threat from the Villas, Citys and Bitters of this world?

You basically admitted it was.

Yes it is and yes we will.

Where have Arsenal finished the previous 2 seasons?

With the right players,we will challenge for the title.

[Red_hot]

red hot means 2 torresess, no, hang on, 2 toressisiss, **** 2 nino's

[AFII]

Overhaul the whole squad??? That's the squad that was finishing 4th...easily.

Now 4th is a struggle.

What a great job he's done, having inherited such a 'weak' squad and overhauled it to the tune of £150m...

He had a lot of players that was unsaleable because of massive wages. That means that he had to spend a lot of money replacing just one player and at the same time still pay a part of the wages to the player that we sold/loaned out.

[Kenneth]

Back to the league vs CL thing, personally, if we were in a CL final every other I wouldn't be too concerned about where we came in the league. Unfortunatelt, without winning it or coming top 4, that's not possbible. In principle, being champions of Europe is every bit as good as being league winners.

[AFII]

I'm happy with us qualifying for the CL every year right now because it's a very unrealistic goal to win the league. We simply can't match Chelsea's money and Man U and Arsenal's revenue stream and other teams have closed the gap and in some cases like Tottenham and Man C even passed us when it comes down to the organization of the club and the transfer budget.

Third or fourth is the realistic place for us at the moment.

Then it comes down to how far we progress in the CL. We have the best manager in europe when it comes down to european cup competitions so QF is the minimum target every year.

When we get more money, then the targets moves up.

[Craig_H]

I'm happy with us qualifying for the CL every year right now because it's a very unrealistic goal to win the league. We simply can't match Chelsea's money and Man U and Arsenal's revenue stream and other teams have closed the gap and in some cases like Tottenham and Man C even passed us when it comes down to the organization of the club and the transfer budget.

Third or fourth is the realistic place for us at the moment.

Then it comes down to how far we progress in the CL. We have the best manager in europe when it comes down to european cup competitions so QF is the minimum target every year.

When we get more money, then the targets moves up.

So why do we spend every summer talking about how it's gonna be 'our year' then?

[MattB]

So why do we spend every summer talking about how it's gonna be 'our year' then?

Because hope springs eternal

[Harv]

It was guaranteed before the last weekend of the season. I wonder if it will be this season...

It's just one excuse after another.

He took over when we were finishing 4th, and four years later, we're struggling to finish 4th. Bizarrely acceptable, apparently.

Oh do **** off with this ****!!

Look at the ****ing competition we are up against for 1st, 2nd and 3rd....and we comfortably finished 3rd last season BTW. This season has been a disaster, everyone agrees...yet we are still in the driving seat for 4th, and a chance for 3rd.

4th is bare minimum, it always has been. But this season has been one drama after another....and at the moment i would gladly take 4th spot and run.

We will be much better next season

[wiw]

He may have spent £150m but he's done so over 4 years, and as people have said, he's had to rebuild the whole squad. You argue that he could've bought '10 £15m players' but is this really realistic? Are you saying he should've bought 1 15m player per transfer window? Because that's all he realistically could have done..is there much point having Torres upfont with Nunez on the wing, until we get another 15m player in? What the point of a world-beater winger with a ****house as a backup? This is the situation Newcastle, Boro etc find themselves in..

IMO he's been clever in the transfer market...he's known from the off that for the forseeable future, and before investment, he would have limited funds. I think Rafa has handled the squad VERY well...he's slowly but surely increased the overall quality of the squad, to the point where it is now clear who is not up to scratch (Riise etc). This is his first season following on from his first summer where he can get his first choice, and I think it is harsh to criticise this season. Next season is the time to judge.

He's also transformed the wage structure, the reserves, the youth, and it is clear we are only 2 or 3 top quality players short. He's stuck to his guns and i respect him for it.

[Harv]

Torres? The most important thing in developing a title winning side, in my opinion of course, is developing a winning mentality - which takes time.

Some of the Liverpool sides of the 80s (as Jocky has pointed out in the past) were not the best teams. But they still won the league. Because that is what they did year in year out

Problem is that developing that winning habit is a function of winning consistently for a long time. I think we are developing and moving in the right direction. We have lost fewer games this season than in any other recent season, but have drawn too many. That, I think has to do with confidence. If you are going through a sticky patch and things aren't always going your way, when you get in front the natural, though subconsious, tendency is to think 'right we are in front' and try to protect the lead. That inevitably hands the initiative to the opposition and makes you play the game differently. More often than not, that scenario leads to conceding - and how often have we seen that this season?

How do you fix that? **** knows. But I do know that a team with Torres in, one year on will have a better chance than this year.

As I said, there's a lot more to it than just players and tactics.

By the way, the quote in my last post was from the match report from last years CL final

thats what we need to do. Develop a killer instinct like the mancs have.

[The_weatherman]

I can't believe anyone is comparing this team to the one under Houllier, I think the strongest team under Houllier was something like:

Dudek

Finnan
Carra
Hyypia
Riise

Smicer?
Gerrard
Hamann
Kewell

Heskey
Owen

Subs. Biscan, Henchoz, Le Tallec, Diouf, Cheyrou, Traore, Baros, Diao

The general style of play was sit deep and hoof it forward to Owen, we had no strength in depth whatsoever.

Rafa (4-2-3-1):

Reina

Finnan
Carra
Agger
Aurelio

Alonso
Mascherano
Gerrard
Kuyt
Babel

Torres

Subs. Lucas, Crouch, Skrtel, Hyypia, Benayoun, Riise, Arbeloa, Kewell, Voronin

I think the difference is huge, the squad as a whole is so much stronger and much more exciting as well.

[MattB]

thats what we need to do. Develop a killer instinct like the mancs have.

Precisely. I think it's pretty clear that what seperates winners and losers is, on the whole, not the ability to get onto a winning position, but the ability to convert it - be that in an individual game or in a league format.

Getting into a winning position is much easier than having the confidence and strength of character to stay there right up to the finishing line.

That, though it pains me to say it, is what the mancs have been so good at over the years. But it took them a decade, near enough, to get to the point where it comes naturally.