Winning the Champs L would be no consolation for another terrible season, rages Ste G

[El Jefecito]

Precisely. I think it's pretty clear that what seperates winners and losers is, on the whole, not the ability to get onto a winning position, but the ability to convert it - be that in an individual game or in a league format.

Getting into a winning position is much easier than having the confidence and strength of character to stay there right up to the finishing line.

That, though it pains me to say it, is what the mancs have been so good at over the years. But it took them a decade, near enough, to get to the point where it comes naturally.

Spot on. Pako said at the beginning of the season that we could not win the EPL for a couple of years because the team as a whole did not have that winning mentality.

[dww]

Oh do **** off with this ****!!

Look at the ****ing competition we are up against for 1st, 2nd and 3rd....and we comfortably finished 3rd last season BTW. This season has been a disaster, everyone agrees...yet we are still in the driving seat for 4th, and a chance for 3rd.

4th is bare minimum, it always has been. But this season has been one drama after another....and at the moment i would gladly take 4th spot and run.

We will be much better next season

I'm not sure that the tone of that post is necessary but largely I agree with you. However I don't think we are in the driving seat for 4th. I think it is very much a fight with Everton with it arguable who is in the better position - their 3 points or our game in hand + goal difference it is a close thing which I'd rather have. They are also in good form.

[pezzzer]

So why do we spend every summer talking about how it's gonna be 'our year' then?

because every year were linked with top targets that benitez never is allowed to get.

this year he got torres and babbel and (esp torres) there flying. the other 3 seasons benitez has had to make do with the craig bellamys and j pennants of this world

to finish 3rd the last 2 seasons with with players bought in on a tight budget (players that fergie/wenger/maureen wouldnt touch) is staggering, add to that the neccessary house keeping that needed to be done from the youth team up to first team and ALL on a modest budget then you surely have to concur that he's some manager.

i just fail to understand how you cant get that

[barnes10]

DJS.

Rafa's doing a great job and were the 4th best team in the country. Anything more is an overachievement and anything less is poor. we've had 2 3rd place finishes, 2 cl finals and a complete revamp of the whole -previoously ****e - squad for the money fergie has lashed on about 6 players. You have to move to stand still in this game. If we had to call on biscan, traore, cheyrou and diao in our squad, we'd be doing a hell of a lot worse than 4th.

you are a WUM. I fail to see how, as a genuine fan, you can't apply a bit of realism to our clubs position and the job the manager has to do. I can't help doing that as a fan. If i just assume rafa should be beating the squads that fergie and chelski have then i'd be living in a dream world (champ manager?). we have a worse squad so we're doing well enough just to live with them. when we don't manage that, what we are is in our rightful place. simple as that.

[El Jefecito]

DJS.

Rafa's doing a great job and were the 4th best team in the country. Anything more is an overachievement and anything less is poor. we've had 2 3rd place finishes, 2 cl finals and a complete revamp of the whole -previoously ****e - squad for the money fergie has lashed on about 6 players. You have to move to stand still in this game. If we had to call on biscan, traore, cheyrou and diao in our squad, we'd be doing a hell of a lot worse than 4th.

you are a WUM. I fail to see how, as a genuine fan, you can't apply a bit of realism to our clubs position and the job the manager has to do. I can't help doing that as a fan. If i just assume rafa should be beating the squads that fergie and chelski have then i'd be living in a dream world (champ manager?). we have a worse squad so we're doing well enough just to live with them. when we don't manage that, what we are is in our rightful place. simple as that.

You are wasting your time. DJS likes in a manic depressive black and white world where realism is less relevant that blindness.

[barnes10]

i responded the same in another thread and got nothing back so i expect the same. hence the WUM statement as i've decided that's what he is.

c'est la vie i guess with an internet forum tho eh. keyboard warriors with nothing better to do with their time.

[pezzzer]

DJS.

Rafa's doing a great job and were the 4th best team in the country. Anything more is an overachievement and anything less is poor. we've had 2 3rd place finishes, 2 cl finals and a complete revamp of the whole -previoously ****e - squad for the money fergie has lashed on about 6 players. You have to move to stand still in this game. If we had to call on biscan, traore, cheyrou and diao in our squad, we'd be doing a hell of a lot worse than 4th.

you are a WUM. I fail to see how, as a genuine fan, you can't apply a bit of realism to our clubs position and the job the manager has to do. I can't help doing that as a fan. If i just assume rafa should be beating the squads that fergie and chelski have then i'd be living in a dream world (champ manager?). we have a worse squad so we're doing well enough just to live with them. when we don't manage that, what we are is in our rightful place. simple as that.

he will never agree though

[AFII]

If you take the squad Rafa had when he took charge then only Gerrard, Carra, Hyypia and Owen was good enough and he had to sell Owen to afford to buy other players.

The rest had to be replaced and that by a manager that didn't knew the league at all and he had to secure CL qualification to get any money to spend at all.

It will take time for a new manager to learn the league, Wenger didn't had that problem but Fergie did. Wenger had an almost good enough squad to begin with and that helps a lot. He also only had Man U as the team to beat.

Rafa have built the squad from top to bottom, from the academy to the league squad. He had to change everything because of the mess the club was in.

The Academy was rubbish, the league squad filled with a lot of very overpaid not good enough players that was more or less unsaleable.

The CL win the 2004-05 season is probably the biggest achievement ever in any european cup if you look at our squad at that time. We had players like Dudek, Traore, Smicer, Baros, Cisse, Riise, Le Tallec, Pongolle, Mellor and a half fit Kewell. We had a lot of injuries, over ten operations that season if I remember things right.

The bottom line is, Rafa is a world class manager and maybe the best ever manager in Europe. He will get the league right when he can sign his first choice players and can compete with the biggest clubs in the transfer market.

[El Jefecito]

Spot on AFII

[Redlife]

I can't believe anyone is comparing this team to the one under Houllier, I think the strongest team under Houllier was something like:

Dudek

Finnan
Carra
Hyypia
Riise

Smicer?
Gerrard
Hamann
Kewell

Heskey
Owen

Subs. Biscan, Henchoz, Le Tallec, Diouf, Cheyrou, Traore, Baros, Diao

The general style of play was sit deep and hoof it forward to Owen, we had no strength in depth whatsoever.

Rafa (4-2-3-1):

Reina

Finnan
Carra
Agger
Aurelio

Alonso
Mascherano
Gerrard
Kuyt
Babel

Torres

Subs. Lucas, Crouch, Skrtel, Hyypia, Benayoun, Riise, Arbeloa, Kewell, Voronin

I think the difference is huge, the squad as a whole is so much stronger and much more exciting as well.

I totally agree.

[tsb]

You are wasting your time. DJS likes in a manic depressive black and white world where realism is less relevant that blindness.

He's a founding member of the RCDNR brigade!

[El Jefecito]

He's a founding member of the RCDNR brigade!

And the TWIATE brigade!

[pezzzer]

He's a founding member of the RCDNR brigade!

but a paid up member of the IKBTRB

[El Jefecito]

Founding member!

[Ron_Mexico]

Overhaul the whole squad??? That's the squad that was finishing 4th...easily.

Now 4th is a struggle.

What a great job he's done, having inherited such a 'weak' squad and overhauled it to the tune of £150m...

you must really, really dislike rafa to come out with tripe like this

you have a really poor memory of houllier's last season. either that or you really are clueless if you think that squad is even comparable to the one we have now

gerrard carried us to 4th that season with some superhuman performances. it was a huge struggle and that was when the league was less competitive than it is now