In defence of Rafa.....gulp...

[Kenneth]

I dont think it helped, TBH. You take your chances when you play the mind games and sometimes it works, other times not.

and 99% of the time, it makes **** all difference.

[Reece]

Klinsman stuff came out middle of december.

But the infamous Press Conference was way before that though.

[Ketario]

It actually saved us from conceding four pens and Carra picking up a booking. Fact.

[The_weatherman]

Don't care if we havent spent as much as the mancs in the PL era, Ferguson only had to start from scratch once. We have had Dalglish, Souness, Evans, Houllier and Benitez at the same time. Starting from scratch means overhauling the squad spending money clearing out dross etc. if we compare the starting XI value I'm quite sure Man Utd come first of the semi finalists, the Chelsea and then us and Barca (Barca have a lot of freebies though)

That's no coincidence that the two richest clubs meet in the final......money is everything, we are 8th in the rich list and have done remarkably well by coming as far as we have done!

[el matador]

I'm sure the mancs did.

i think you're right. they will be gutted that chelsea have gotten through as they would have had a better chance of beating us than they have of beating abramovich's chelsea in moscow.

Can see some outrageous decisions going against united in the final and chelsea winning it. i wont be shedding any tears for them.

[Shaggy]

i think you're right. they will be gutted that chelsea have gotten through as they would have had a better chance of beating us than they have of beating abramovich's chelsea in moscow.

Can see some outrageous decisions going against united in the final and chelsea winning it. i wont be shedding any tears for them.

I'd piss my pants.

[Skillz]

You do realise we've spent the same as the mancs in the PL era?

We have had to rebuild a lot while Manu got a superb base from within hence why thet can spend more on individual players.

Personally I think the best guide to a teams strength is its wage bill, not perfect but a much better indicator of the quality in a squad, IMO. Chelsea and Manu are much higher than us, particularly Chelsea.

[Neil Young]

Personally I think the best guide to a teams strength is its wage bill, not perfect but a much better indicator of the quality in a squad, IMO. Chelsea and Manu are much higher than us, particularly Chelsea.

That's an interesting point I haven't heard before. A couple of observations:

I reckon you have to allow for the fact that clubs have different policies. Some spend a lot on fees and less on wages (e.g. Tottenham) while others do the opposite (e.g. Bolton). Maybe at the top level that's less important, I don't know.

There's also the issue of whether we really know how much any club pays in wages. I assume PLC's have to declare them but then there are probably all sorts of accounting fiddles they can use. Since Chelsea are privately owned then presumably they don't have to release any details. All the same I'm sure you're right - their wage bill must be enormous.

[Snigger]

Well, with some of the depression on the site, I thought I would do the unusual and defend Rafa.

Firstly, let me make it clear. We will not win the league under Rafa no matter how much money we give him. He simply has the wroong mentality to win the English League. Gone are the days when you could grind out a league title the way he did in Spain.

Damn, why didn't anyone tell Mourinho.

[Skillz]

That's an interesting point I haven't heard before. A couple of observations:

I reckon you have to allow for the fact that clubs have different policies. Some spend a lot on fees and less on wages (e.g. Tottenham) while others do the opposite (e.g. Bolton). Maybe at the top level that's less important, I don't know.

There's also the issue of whether we really know how much any club pays in wages. I assume PLC's have to declare them but then there are probably all sorts of accounting fiddles they can use. Since Chelsea are privately owned then presumably they don't have to release any details. All the same I'm sure you're right - their wage bill must be enormous.

The figures I have seen but how reliable they are is anyones guess. Assuming the writer had no bias though it is a good guide, and yes I know how big an assumption that might be. 2 points though

- Rafa inherited a squad that included a lot of absolute ****e on long, expensive contracts eg Le Tallec is still on our payroll, his 6th ****ing year

- Chelsea need to pay **** load, why else would anyone go there

[Joe Le Toff]

Rafa has put us back on the map. We're a force again. We might not have sustained a credible title challenge (yet) but he has made people respect us again, fear us again. Every single season of Rafa's has brought us hope. Finals and semi-finals left, right and centre.

The Mancs here would piss themselves if he was sacked. He's the best thing to happen to us for a long time and he should be allowed to stay for as long as he likes.

Sorry Shaggy but i dont agree with that mate As far is Europe is concerned then yeah, we are, Rafas record in the CL since he came here has been phenomenal and hes put us back on the map as a major force.

Its the league where i disagree. We may be respected but imo thats our name going before us and is nothing to do with our strength as a team. I dont believe that anyone fears us either, quite the opposite as i see teams that we should be brushing aside come to us thinking they can get a result because of our ponderous one dimensional football.

I dont know of one fan who wouldnt sacrifice all of the semis and finals for the league or even to have had a decent crack at it.

[EwarWoo]

How much he's spent is irrelevant IMHO.

More importantly would be how many of his purchases have been 3rd or 4th choice in the last week or 2 of the window because the board have dragged their arses and lost the chance to get who he wants.

You can't knee cap a bloke then blame him for being a slow runner.

[Snigger]

FAO Mr no axe to grind DJS - please review - it's constant and it's dull. We all know you don't think Rafa will win us the league and we all know you don't particularly like him so you can stop telling us know..............please:

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=47788

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=47955

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=45530

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=42088

[wiw]

We simply couldn't play a high tempo passing game on that pitch. The fact that we continued to try for the whole game is my only critcism of Rafa. Yes, Skrtel's injury maybe ruined his plans a little, but (again) I think Crouch should've come on

[einar]

Sorry Shaggy but i dont agree with that mate As far is Europe is concerned then yeah, we are, Rafas record in the CL since he came here has been phenomenal and hes put us back on the map as a major force.

Its the league where i disagree. We may be respected but imo thats our name going before us and is nothing to do with our strength as a team. I dont believe that anyone fears us either, quite the opposite as i see teams that we should be brushing aside come to us thinking they can get a result because of our ponderous one dimensional football.

I dont know of one fan who wouldnt sacrifice all of the semis and finals for the league or even to have had a decent crack at it.

So you would sacrifice our nr. 5 for second in the league?