In the hole?

[billy_mac]

Presuming Rafa sticks with a 4-2-3-1, signing a player in his position and moving stevie g back to centre midfield is a much better option than shelling out 20m on Barry. Granted money comes in from sales, but better spent in other areas. If stevie g gets injured who plays in this position then? Voronin? Or switch to 4-4-2 with 2 defensive midfielders and how many wingers? There are altenatives in the centre midifeld as it stands. I think Barry is a good player and will improve us in the league if he signs, but he is not as good as stevie g as a centre midfielder. Moving stevie g back will not deminish his game any. He'll still get goals form runs from deep as he always has. While he was good playing off torres last season he hasn't got the gulie of deco, sneidjer, van der vaart or aimar. I'd love to see villa play in that position.

[dww]

While he doesn't have the guile as a hole player Gerrard does have the drive and can create a lot from that position. For me he might not loose anything deeper but the team does. He plays too many long, low percentage balls when there and it is a problem.

Ideally I think we need a Zidane type player (or Ronaldinho of a few years ago) who can give the guile while coming inside from a wide position. I would however like to see a genuine deep forward added to the squad but Kuyt, Voronin and Benayoun can cover the position for now (with Gerrard as first choice). I would rather we spent money on backup for Torres and players to play in the wider roles.

[El Jefecito]

SG has got 20+ goals in the two seasons he has not played in midfield. Rafa's idea of a CM is that they are deeper lying and get forward only when the conditions are right. SG is too good in the final 3rd to spending all of his time hanging out in the center circle and tackling back.

I'd ship SG out right and go for a playmaker too. Villa though is no playmaker and as you say if we do stick with 4231 I don't really see how we can fit him. I'd rather a VDV / Deco / Sneidjer for that role too.

[billy_mac]

The fact of the mater is gerrard is the best holding midfielder, the best centre midfielder, the best right sided midfielder, best attacking midfielder etc we have. I see a huge dependance on his shoulders behind torres to create, which he did very well last season for a player learning the position, but you can tell he's not a natural there. Injury or suspension and we're lacking in creativity. Kyut, Voronin and Yossi aren't good enough. Very valid point about the long range passing. But it might encourage Carra not to hoof it, and pass it to Stevie and then Stevie could just pass it simple to the playmaker and get forword. He mightn't get 20+ goals but the team would score more with him at CM and a playmaker ahead pulling the strings.

Its all based on possibilities no? And if we are going to go 4-2-3-1 we need back up there. 4-4-2 may well work if Gerrard was allowed to play on the right by the press. The hacks don't say anything when Fabio has him out on the left for England. Soon as he hits a bit of paint on the sidelines at anfield, its all over the media and all the gerrard and rafa falling out nonsense starts. Villa would be a square peg in a round hole in 4-2-3-1 and i'm slightly dillusional after seeing himself and Torres in the euro's, but he'd fit in somewhere. He'd be better on our bench than anybody else's!

[EST_1892]

Oh, so it's NOT a Tiger Woods thread or even vaguely connected to porn. I bid you goodnight then.

[Kronenburg1892]

4-2-3-1 is a formation we finished the season with. That's all it is.

We've seen all sorts of experiments with Rafa over his tenure, so next year I'm not expecting to see this 4-2-3-1 set in stone for the season. I think it will very much depend on what quality is performing and how Rafa gets the most out of it.

I have no problems with Barry getting into the side at all. He's performed in a multitude of roles and doesn't seem too precious where he starts, which makes him a very useful player. And although I've liked what Alonso has given to the team, I feel his pirouette 180 with the ball out of tackles has been found out, so has struggled to command the space he needs in the middle of the park. Not saying Barry is any better, but he does give options on who plays where. Useful grafter, with some finish.

[Fiddy]

Presuming Rafa sticks with a 4-2-3-1, signing a player in his position and moving stevie g back to centre midfield is a much better option than shelling out 20m on Barry. Granted money comes in from sales, but better spent in other areas. If stevie g gets injured who plays in this position then? Voronin? Or switch to 4-4-2 with 2 defensive midfielders and how many wingers? There are altenatives in the centre midifeld as it stands. I think Barry is a good player and will improve us in the league if he signs, but he is not as good as stevie g as a centre midfielder. Moving stevie g back will not deminish his game any. He'll still get goals form runs from deep as he always has. While he was good playing off torres last season he hasn't got the gulie of deco, sneidjer, van der vaart or aimar. I'd love to see villa play in that position.

Sorry mate but moving Stevie back and playing Villa there just would not work - Villa is not a playmaker, he's a striker and a completely different player to the likes of Deco, Sneijder & VdV who you mention, they're all attacking midfielders

[Johnny]

Who`s to say where Villa would play.We`d have Torres,Gerrard,Villa,Kuyt and Babel interchanging/rotating positions.**** me,that sounds good.

[frank the tank]

firstly, Deco is going to go to either Inter or else Chelsea so I dont think there is much point in linking him to us. Secondly, there is no way we could afford to get Sneidjer.

I do feel that we could do with a playmaker type added to the team. Presuming that rafa plays 3 behind torres, then i think his main striker options will be Torres, Kuyt / Babel (also optional as one of the 3 behind), Nemeth and Voronin......

for the 3 behind the main striker, we have the option of Gerrard, Kuyt, Babel, Benayoun & Pennant - the last one could very well be replaced by Milner.... I would also add one more playmaker type player.... the players I would look at are:

Aimar - on his day he is unplayable....

Van Der Vaart - could do with a new challenge....

[Johnny]

firstly, Deco is going to go to either Inter or else Chelsea so I dont think there is much point in linking him to us. Secondly, there is no way we could afford to get Sneidjer.

I do feel that we could do with a playmaker type added to the team. Presuming that rafa plays 3 behind torres, then i think his main striker options will be Torres, Kuyt / Babel (also optional as one of the 3 behind), Nemeth and Voronin......

for the 3 behind the main striker, we have the option of Gerrard, Kuyt, Babel, Benayoun & Pennant - the last one could very well be replaced by Milner.... I would also add one more playmaker type player.... the players I would look at are:

Aimar - on his day he is unplayable....

Van Der Vaart - could do with a new challenge....

Gerrard is our Playmaker,we don`t need another.

[JohnDoe]

Gerrard behind Torres works. There is absolutely no need to change it. They've scored 55 goals this season, what more does anyone want from them? What we need are wingers who can compliment our 4-2-3-1 formation. Kuyt and Babel are fine but we need two more. Whoever we sign for those positions will make or break our season.

[Guest]

Gerrard behind Torres works. There is absolutely no need to change it. They've scored 55 goals this season, what more does anyone want from them? What we need are wingers who can compliment our 4-2-3-1 formation. Kuyt and Babel are fine but we need two more. Whoever we sign for those positions will make or break our season.

It won't be Silva or Quaresma or any of that ilk though. I reckon Milner and Downing could be more affordable players. And I'm sure they won't do badly.

[bertie]

Presuming Rafa sticks with a 4-2-3-1, signing a player in his position and moving stevie g back to centre midfield is a much better option than shelling out 20m on Barry. Granted money comes in from sales, but better spent in other areas. If stevie g gets injured who plays in this position then? Voronin? Or switch to 4-4-2 with 2 defensive midfielders and how many wingers? There are altenatives in the centre midifeld as it stands. I think Barry is a good player and will improve us in the league if he signs, but he is not as good as stevie g as a centre midfielder. Moving stevie g back will not deminish his game any. He'll still get goals form runs from deep as he always has. While he was good playing off torres last season he hasn't got the gulie of deco, sneidjer, van der vaart or aimar. I'd love to see villa play in that position.

I posted this already in the Villa thread:

"I've been thinking of this for a while now & how Rafa is going to incorporate Villa into the team (assuming Shankslegend is right!). I have a sneaky feeling that we'd line up a la Milan as Rafa doesn't seem to trust out&out wingers in a 4-4-2. What d'ya think of this team...4-3-1-2 with best mates Gerrard & Barry operating both sides of the monster & we'd give Babel the true freedom to wreak havoc up front without having to track back all the time thereby allowing us to utilise his pace on the break. I really think that this is a title winning team with goals all over the park.


------------------------Reina

------------Deggan Carra Agger Dossena

----------------Gerrard Masch Barry

-----------------------Babel

--------------------Villa Torres



Any thoughts?"

[friedk]

I don't think it's a coincidence that the 2 seasons where we managed our highest points totals, Stevie G did not play central midfield.

It would be utter madness to change the Gerrard/Torres combination, which is as good or better than any in Europe.

Even if we played 4-4-2 I would prefer Gerrard on the right.

It is also a myth that playing with 2 holding midfielders is a negative tactic, it actually allows you to play with 4 attackers.

There is another myth that Rafa stumbled upon 4-2-3-1, which is ridiculous considering Babel in one of his first interviews with us said that Rafa told him he would be one of 6 strikers competing for 4 positions.

[billy_mac]

I posted this already in the Villa thread:

"I've been thinking of this for a while now & how Rafa is going to incorporate Villa into the team (assuming Shankslegend is right!). I have a sneaky feeling that we'd line up a la Milan as Rafa doesn't seem to trust out&out wingers in a 4-4-2. What d'ya think of this team...4-3-1-2 with best mates Gerrard & Barry operating both sides of the monster & we'd give Babel the true freedom to wreak havoc up front without having to track back all the time thereby allowing us to utilise his pace on the break. I really think that this is a title winning team with goals all over the park.


------------------------Reina

------------Deggan Carra Agger Dossena

----------------Gerrard Masch Barry

-----------------------Babel

--------------------Villa Torres



Any thoughts?"

Would be grand in europe. Not so good in the league were most teams favour 4-4-2, we'd be left short down the wings. But just shift Gerrard right and move Babel left and job is a good one. I think getting Barry and Villa is a bit ambitious.