Hansen talking sense

[JohnDoe]

what he meant was that he thinks gerrard lacks tactical discipline in that the two central midfield players have to be able to sit and protect their defenders whereas gerrard's natural game is to push on.

Watch our games with Gerrard-Mascherano in the middle this season when Alonso was out and tell me it wasn't ****.

and I completely disagree because gerrard started his first team career as a defensive midfield player or holding player

He's a completely different player from when he made his debut.

in istanbul against ac milan when they brought on serginho for the last part of the game, benitez moved gerrard to right back to mark him and stop his crosses.

This boy can do everything and this fact should not be trivialised.

The fact he's a superb player with amazing versatility doesn't contradict him not being at his best in a two man central midfield.

Because of our shortcomings in attack he pushes on because if he doesnt score or create we general dont and havent until torres came onboard.

If we had more power in attack, im sure we would see a more disciplined gerrard playing as one of the two midfielders.

Extra power in attack wouldn't work if Gerrard and Masch were in charge of giving them the service from the middle. It just doesn't work.

[JohnDoe]

Everyone beats up on the formation and SG when we play manure, but the fact is that just about everyone underperformed in those games, so to pin it on just SG or 4231, is to miss the point entirely.

I'm not just talking about the Man United game. It was evident every time we were chasing a game with Gerrard as the 2nd striker. Sure, when we scored first, it was really difficult to stop us. But anyway, it's really not changing much, just a little tweak. He'll get tons of goals in that position.

[El Jefecito]

Watch our games with Gerrard-Mascherano in the middle this season when Alonso was out and tell me it wasn't ****.


He's a completely different player from when he debuted.



The fact he's a superb player with amazing versatility doesn't contradict him not being at his best in a two man central midfield.



Extra power in attack wouldn't work if Gerrard and Masch were in charge of giving them the service from the middle. It just doesn't work.

JD. SGs best two seasons for us have been @ RW and as a 2nd striker. No-one is trying to say that he is not the best CM in the world, only that he is EVEN better at those two positions.

[El Jefecito]

I'm not just talking about the Man United game. It was evident every time we were chasing a game with Gerrard as the 2nd striker. Sure, when we scored first, it was really difficult to stop us. But anyway, it's really not changing much, just a little tweak. He'll get tons of goals in that position.

I'm confused now. Are you saying that he will get more goals from CM than he did as a 2nd striker?

[Craig_H]

Fact is we cant afford to spend £35m on 2 players. We can only afford to spend around £17-20m which only goves us 1 class player

Kuyt, Babel and Gerrard are all capable of filling our wide positions if Keane and Torres build a partnership up top

If we're looking to sign Barry AND Keane, as suggested, then surely they'd cost more than £35m. In which case, it looks like we can afford to spend £35m on two.

[Craig_H]

El Jef, the point is that we don't need an upgrade on Xabi in the Xabi mould. It's too negative a line up. He's not creative enough imo. We'll already have Mascherano and Gerrard who can play the role. We need someone a bit more creative

And I know a lot of people say Rafa knows his stuff. Yeah he does. But Hansen knows this league and knows what it takes to win the league in England. This time he is spot on....with the Barry part of it anyway.

[el matador]

Watch our games with Gerrard-Mascherano in the middle this season when Alonso was out and tell me it wasn't ****.

when we play 442 we are **** because we dont have any fullbacks who push on and we have 'wide players' who couldnt create a snowman in iceland.

He's a completely different player from when he debuted.

I agree - he's developed into the complete midfield player.

The fact he's a superb player with amazing versatility doesn't contradict him not being at his best in a two man central midfield.

we cannot play 442 because we dont have the human resource to do so. You could put essien and ballack into our 442 and it would still be ****.

Extra power in attack wouldn't work if Gerrard and Masch were in charge of giving them the service from the middle. It just doesn't work.

I think it would if we had 2 attacking fullbacks and 2 proper wide players.

Our team is simply not geared towards playing 442 - you could put any combination of alonso, masher and gerrard in the middle two and the end result would still be laughable because we dont have anyone to create anything -apart from gerrard.

[Craig_H]

IMPACT players can do that, SG is 100% instinct and there is no-one better at it.

I'm not meaning to make him out as a bad player, he isn't, there are few better. But don't try to convince me he is a "smart" player. Won't wash.

You dont think Gerrard has game intelligence? I think he has bags of it.

What he doesnt have enough of maybe, is defensive discipline.

Given what Gerrard gives you going forward, i think it'd be foolish to place too much emphasis on defensive duties for him.

[Imy]

In our system width comes from the fullbacks. What we need is a bigger goal return from Kutyt, Benayoun and Babel.

[JohnDoe]

I'm confused now. Are you saying that he will get more goals from CM than he did as a 2nd striker?

I don't know if more, but Lampard is half the player and he scored a **** load from that position. And if Gerrard scores that **** load of goals, and we've got Robbie Keane to add another 15 in the league and Kuyt will hit that cow's arse with a banjo, we'll be in pretty good shape on the scoring end.

I'm not saying Gerrard as a 2nd striker doesn't work. It works fine and it can work even better if you add top wingers to the 4-2-3-1, but Rafa isn't going that route. Signing Keane is enough evidence that he's planning to change Gerrard's role next season, even by a bit.

[el matador]

In our system width comes from the fullbacks. What we need is a bigger goal return from Kutyt, Benayoun and Babel.

i think we were the overall highest scorers in the division (not the PL) last season which suggests that our goal return is ok.

However, our lack of creativity means that in some key games ie united and chelsea we struggled badly to create a decent chance.

If you have gerrard and torres in your team you will always have enough to beat 15 or so of the PL teams.

But we need more creativity and threat to seriously pose any kind of danger to united, arsenal and chelsea. As things stand we just dont have that and Gareth Barry isnt going to provide it.

[Parm]

To be fair he has a point and then he doesn't. We need a signing like Keane because at the moment we rely too heavily on Gerrard and Torres. If we are going to play the 4231 formation or whatever, then we need a Keane type signing. He'd be a perfect partner for Torres

Then the question comes about Barry. And to be honest it's a total waste of money. If we buy Keane then Gerrard must drop back into midfield with Mascherano. We then have Babel and Kuyt. Barry just doesn't fit in the team. I can't see why we'd spend £16m odd on him. Lucas has looked decent in pre-season. The main problem for me is on the right wing. If we don't buy a winger, a guy who can beat his man and put in good crosses we won't win the title.

Don't know what other people think but I think this has to be Rafa's last chance at winning the Premiership for us. If he goes and shells £40m odd on Barry and Keane and doesn't win the title then that should be it for him.

The Barry signing is crucial I think. Most fans last season were saying we needed decent wingers....and that's still the case.

We've got an attacking full-back in Dossena now and Darby looks a lot better than Degen at Right-Back.

I'd be happy if we bought Keane and a winger. Not Keane and Barry

I dont know if it would be his last season, but any leeway he has would severely be shortened.

And like hyou if we got Keane + winger I'd be happy.

[Imy]

i think we were the overall highest scorers in the division (not the PL) last season which suggests that our goal return is ok.

However, our lack of creativity means that in some key games ie united and chelsea we struggled badly to create a decent chance.

If you have gerrard and torres in your team you will always have enough to beat 15 or so of the PL teams.

But we need more creativity and threat to seriously pose any kind of danger to united, arsenal and chelsea. As things stand we just dont have that and Gareth Barry isnt going to provide it.

We seem to have scored many goals in few games, what really messed us up was those stupid drawn games where we let leads slip or created chances but were not clinical enough in front of goal.

I agree about creativity, we struggle badly against the big 3, Babel i think will improve, hopefully Torres will get more goals away from home too and more attacking full backs will mean more space and more attackers in around Torres. Having watched the pre-season games Dossena is pushed right up top and it looks like this a sign for the new season.

[Elvis]

We hammered some teams - Besiktas, Marseille, Derby - but how many did we score against our main rivals?

[sackparry]

just read my post again and shut the **** up all of you. i am right you all know it.