Arsenal Fan view of Liverpool.

[Vermilion]

Fair enough. I do think though that you have to base the assessment of players on what you have seen them do previously. I accept that there is a lot of potential development in many players but I would think the style of Maschers contribution will remain the same and the point I was making is that that is not necessarily a bad thing.

No it's no bad thing Maschers style of play, not at all, but i do think he'll improve on his creative distribution as time go's on.

Now i know that one of the main facets of his type of play is win it then pass it...keep it simple, but there's nothing wrong with seeing a killer pass wherever you are on the field or whatever position you happen to play, i'm not talking putting strikers through, just beginning an attacking phase of play by playing the right ball to the right player.

[El Jefecito]

There is some truth in that surely. In the hurly burly of the PL at least Mascher is a specialist destroyer and neat short passer and rarely anything else. The fact that he is is limited in what he does doesn't make him less valuable - would Chelsea have won the PL without Makelele I very much doubt it.

Beware of falling afoul of the "horn and halo" effect.

El Jefecito's game has been steadily changing, towards the end of the season he was more and more progressive. He was no longer the DM who sat, both he and Lucas were taking turns sitting. He was increasingly taking responsibility for the long balls to switch flanks. He also carried the ball forward far more than a Makele has ever done.

The Makele comparison was good a year or so ago, but undersells what El Jefecito is now and the work that Rafa has done to mould him into a more rounded player.

[Abro100]

I got to about the second paragraph then ****ed it off, the top paragraph has to be a piss take, the amount of time the Arsenal players have walked off the field without shaking hands of acknowledging their opponents when beaten is shameful. And talking about Average players, Arsenal need to have a look at themselves, especially when it goes to their Bench and some of their starting 11 (when fit aswell)

[Exiled_red]

It's just an attempt by them to convince themselves they'll finish above us

[dww]

Beware of falling afoul of the "horn and halo" effect.

El Jefecito's game has been steadily changing, towards the end of the season he was more and more progressive. He was no longer the DM who sat, both he and Lucas were taking turns sitting. He was increasingly taking responsibility for the long balls to switch flanks. He also carried the ball forward far more than a Makele has ever done.

The Makele comparison was good a year or so ago, but undersells what El Jefecito is now and the work that Rafa has done to mould him into a more rounded player.

I'm not sure he has been moulded - AFII always made the point that he always offered more for Argentina. I just think that at the end of the season we played more games in which the opposition weren't as ferocious in their pressing as they had been earlier in the season and he took advantage of it. At the end of both of the seasons with us he has shown he has greater passing range but for me when teams really press he reverts to playing it safe (as he should and I wish as times more of our players did). My suspicion is that he will not be able to give much to us creatively in the PL in general although I would hope to be proved wrong. I'm willing to accept that part of our move to a more progressive, dominant team might be to increase the variation in his role.

[Red_Polo]

There is some truth in that surely. In the hurly burly of the PL at least Mascher is a specialist destroyer and neat short passer and rarely anything else. The fact that he is is limited in what he does doesn't make him less valuable - would Chelsea have won the PL without Makelele I very much doubt it.

There's definitely some truth in it, but like you say in comparing him to Makalele it doesn't mean he's no as good as most people think. Every player has his limitations, the fact he's stated it with Mascherano seems to imply he's not all he's cracked up to be because of those limitations. Which is turdfest, as was the article overall (if not a joke). If you can't spell player names and think Wenger is gracious in defeat then you deserve to write for a red top.

[El Jefecito]

I'm not sure he has been moulded - AFII always made the point that he always offered more for Argentina. I just think that at the end of the season we played more games in which the opposition weren't as ferocious in their pressing as they had been earlier in the season and he took advantage of it. At the end of both of the seasons with us he has shown he has greater passing range but for me when teams really press he reverts to playing it safe (as he should and I wish as times more of our players did). My suspicion is that he will not be able to give much to us creatively in the PL in general although I would hope to be proved wrong. I'm willing to accept that part of our move to a more progressive, dominant team might be to increase the variation in his role.

Sure, he tailors his play to the circumstances, and of course the more opportunity there is to attack, the more he will attack. Point is he can attack, he does attack, he can switch / dictate play, he can make runs from deep, etc etc

I just strongly disagree with the characterization that he is a destroyer that can do short passes.

[Aza]

It's just an attempt by them to convince themselves they'll finish above us

My thoughts exactly