Can we all just chill the f*ck out?!

[Craig_H]

Problem is, from what i've seen, Dossena and Degen arent in the calibre of Ashley Cole, Bosingwa, Sagna, Clichy, Evra or even Brown, when it comes to getting high up the park and providing a threat from wide. I hope to be proven wrong.

[Pippo]

Speaking sense = pretending the problems we have arent really there?

I don't deny that we lack width, I just think that the winger argument is nonsense. As I say in my original post, once Mascher is back we can get the full backs pushed right up adding more width.

[BFG]

Problem is, from what i've seen, Dossena and Degen arent in the calibre of Ashley Cole, Bosingwa, Sagna, Clichy, Evra or even Brown, when it comes to getting high up the park and providing a threat from wide. I hope to be proven wrong.

And what have you seen? A couple of games in a new league for Dossena and 20 mins of Degen in friendlies? Not really enough to make a judgement mate.

[Craig_H]

I don't deny that we lack width, I just think that the winger argument is nonsense. As I say in my original post, once Mascher is back we can get the full backs pushed right up adding more width.

If they do that and they're good at it, then yeah that's fine. I'm not convinced of either of those scenarios though. I dont expect Rafa to get them bombing forward like Evra, Ashley Cole etc.

[Craig_H]

And what have you seen? A couple of games in a new league for Dossena and 20 mins of Degen in friendlies? Not really enough to make a judgement mate.

I'm not making a conclusive judgement, that would be silly. I'm a little concerned and hoping to be mistaken.

[Pippo]

"Problem is, from what i've seen, Dossena and Degen arent in the calibre of Ashley Cole, Bosingwa, Sagna, Clichy, Evra or even Brown, when it comes to getting high up the park and providing a threat from wide. I hope to be proven wrong."

The point being that, so far, we havn't pushed them on because we have very little protection in front of the defence.

Look at the position Mido scored from on Saturday, do you think that would have happened on Mascher's shift?

[Fierce]

Problem is, from what i've seen, Dossena and Degen arent in the calibre of Ashley Cole, Bosingwa, Sagna, Clichy, Evra or even Brown, when it comes to getting high up the park and providing a threat from wide. I hope to be proven wrong.

One of them has had 3 competitive games, the other, none. I hope you're proven wrong too, but you should at least allow a little time TO be proven wrong

[Craig_H]

One of them has had 3 competitive games, the other, none. I hope you're proven wrong too, but you should at least allow a little time TO be proven wrong

As i said, i'm not making a final judgement here. But whether we like it or not, everyone forms an opinion from the off, they can (and probably should) alter it as they see more of those players, but even from the first game, we all start to form an opinion of a player. It's natural. Same as when you meet a new person, you dont 'judge them', but they make a first impression on you, one way or another.

[MrMichael]

Good post which will probably be dismissed because it doesnt pretend everything's ok in our early season performances.

I don't think anyone's doing that, lets not get into black or white arguments because really, this early in the season, everything's all about shades of grey isn't it. On one hand, we've played poorly in all 4 competitive games so far this season, and don't seem to have as yet finally addressed as many problem positions as many people would have liked. On the other, we have one of the best players in the world (Mascher) to return to the side, a partnership between two excellent strikers to properly form, and have somehow picked up 3 wins in a row while playing well below our obvious capabilities. I haven;t seen one post ion this site saying "everything's been ok with our performances so far", but people must surely be allowed to have just a little bit of hope in their hearts still?

Speaking sense = pretending the problems we have arent really there?

Nope, it = arguing your point coherently in a way that others appreciate and are persuaded by, whatever the perspective. I've seen you do that a few times recently yourself, don't go the other way now eh?

[Red_Polo]

I largely agree with that argument but I think that we saw last season that Kuyt for example can provide good delivery from out wide if the team is functioning well and consequently making room. I think that there is a lot more ability in the players we have than we have seen so far this season. I do feel that a lot of the problem is psychological. Not sure how we cure it but I guess winning matches is as good a way as any to build confidence.

There's definitely some truth in that, we are far better than what we've shown so far and blaming our poor form on lack of width alone would be a mistake. However, we shouldn't kid ourselves about our dearth of quality out wide. Kuyt may be ok when the rest play well but there will always be times when the team isn't functioning as it should be and then it comes down to individual brilliance. With our current personnel that means we're 'ok' out wide when the rest of the team plays well and offer little when we struggle to make things work as a unit - clearly not ideal.

I'm not of the extreme opinion that we are doomed because of it and I think the team will shrug off the general poor form we've shown, but unless Degen and Dossena turn out to be superb I think we will still find life tough at times for a lack of quality out wide.

Whilst the pundits have oversimplified and exaggerated things yet again, I don't think this particular criticism of the month is anything like as idiotic as the **** they chatted on rotation and zonal marking. Monkeys and typewriters, I suppose...

[slimbimjim]

It's still early days people. I don't expect we will play vintage until Christmas time, especially with new players in the team.

The only thing that worries me (but not at this stage) is if Mascher gets injured, do we become a totally **** team?

[Kenneth]

One of them has had 3 competitive games, the other, none. I hope you're proven wrong too, but you should at least allow a little time TO be proven wrong

Cole and Evra, two of the best left backs in the world. Dossena (who?) may well turn out to be one of the best but it's probably sensible to assume that he isn't.

Chelsea and Man U are the teams that we're supposed to be challenging with. Take the right side, we have Kuyt, Degen, Arbeloa and Pennant. Hmm.

[Craig_H]

I don't think anyone's doing that, lets not get into black or white arguments because really, this early in the season, everything's all about shades of grey isn't it. On one hand, we've played poorly in all 4 competitive games so far this season, and don't seem to have as yet finally addressed as many problem positions as many people would have liked. On the other, we have one of the best players in the world (Mascher) to return to the side, a partnership between two excellent strikers to properly form, and have somehow picked up 3 wins in a row while playing well below our obvious capabilities. I haven;t seen one post ion this site saying "everything's been ok with our performances so far", but people must surely be allowed to have just a little bit of hope in their hearts still?



Nope, it = arguing your point coherently in a way that others appreciate and are persuaded by, whatever the perspective. I've seen you do that a few times recently yourself, don't go the other way now eh?

It's not black and white, of course it's not. What i took from the original post was an interpretation that said "Forget width, it's not an issue, let's just chill out". To be fair, the fella did then point out his reasoning why he wasnt worried, and i take that on board but i personally found it to be a little dismissive of what i think are very real issues that we need to sort out quickly. Not wholly dismissive and it was unfair of me to respond in a manner that suggested he was dismissing those issues out of hand, because i realise he wasnt.

I worry that it'll take more than Mascherano back to sort us out, the fullbacks do badly need to get higher up the park and offer a wider option and on a more worrying note, the notion of accurate passing and movement needs to be remembered by our boys.

So to put it simply, i'm not totally sure it's just a case of getting Mascher back and telling the fullbacks to go forward a bit.

To point out though that i do too hold much hope, i can assure you that i AM going around thinking to myself, somewhat blindly perhaps "dont worry, it'll come, we're too good for this to continue, it'll get sorted soon...soon!"

[Parm]

Wingers aside we look **** wherever you want to place the blame.

worryingly Torres looks ****e at the moment

[Kenneth]

worryingly Torres looks ****e at the moment

He'll still score.