The Youth Academy

[Resu]

Local lads given a chance ? Even if they are ****e ?

What Rafa has done is increase the competition. It's going to be more difficult but it will ultimately benefit our team. Hambug's challenge is to produce and scout for the best local talents. Nothing to do about control IMO.

That Rafa can`t/work with Heighway and now Hamberg is about control IMO. It could be that they hate each other, but I don`t think so.

And the whole problem the posts points to is that Rafa don`t give the local lads a chance. It`s not about giving **** local players a chance, it`s about giving decent local players the same chance that decent imported players get.

[Guest]

Barcelona?

They brought in players from abroad. Dos Santos, Messi, the little croat (can't remember his name) etc ...

Local kids ? Not much of them. I think Pep Guardiola was an exception and he played a long time ago. So please, get your fact straight. I can't understand the point of this.

[Guest]

That Rafa can`t/work with Heighway and now Hamberg is about control IMO. It could be that they hate each other, but I don`t think so.

And the whole problem the posts points to is that Rafa don`t give the local lads a chance. It`s not about giving **** local players a chance, it`s about giving decent local players the same chance that decent imported players get.

Rafa should be the ultimate judge of a player's worth. I haven't seen local kids play so I can't say anything.

To date he's given Warnock his chance, and also young players such as Plessis and El Zhar. So it's clearly something which is being addressed.

If any local player is good enough he'll play. If he's not, he'll pack his bags and play for Everton. Simple.

[Rashid]

They brought in players from abroad. Dos Santos, Messi, the little croat (can't remember his name) etc ...

Local kids ? Not much of them. I think Pep Guardiola was an exception and he played a long time ago. So please, get your fact straight. I can't understand the point of this.

Krkic was born in Barcelona I think.... have you forgotten the Spanish youngsters they have in their team?

[Guest]

Krkic was born in Barcelona I think.... have you forgotten the Spanish youngsters they have in their team?

Barca have been doing that for years and years. We had an exceptional crop of players under Evans who were home grown. We haven't had the chance to have players as good and in these numbers 10 years down the line.

It's the same at Man Utd. They had the Scholes and Butt generation. Now, who do you see as being good enough to regularly compete with Ronaldo ? Nobody. Richardson has been shipped to Sunderland.

[Exiled_red]

I have to say that I agree with the "everything under one roof" point, at the moment the split between first team/reserves and academy probably isn't helping anyone, the young players at Melwood are part of the first team so their talent isn't being nurtured as much as it would be at the academy while the academy players aren't getting the more competitive difficult games to develop their game. Having everything under one roof would mean the younger players in the reserves/academy could split their time between the two, and remove the formal "step up to Melwood"

[Parm]

This whole control thing seems to effect our managers the longer they stay here, Houllier had the same problem - he ended wanting to choose who cleaned the toilets at the acedemy! I think Heighway has a pretty decent record at the academy and you just don't know how kids will turn out unless you give them a chance. I want the world's best youngsters here no doubt, but I also want to see local lads given a chance. Barring Torres, the best players to pull on a red shirt these past 18 years since Barnes in his pomp have come from the academy - Owen, Fowler, Gerrard and McManaman.

Come on mate, Reina, Carra, Hyypia, hamman, Mascher, Alonso?

but I do agree with you on the control point, it does seem to be point of paranoia for the managers to have complete control.

[Imy]

I watched the Academy programme on LFC TV a few nights back and there are some very good kids coming through, most of the Kids have been bought in Rafa's time and i doubt we wont see the likes of Lauri Dalla Valle, Alex Kacaniklic, Marvin Pourie, Christopher Buchtmann, Tom Ince eventually get a chance at reserve level.

[Resu]

Rafa should be the ultimate judge of a player's worth. I haven't seen local kids play so I can't say anything.

To date he's given Warnock his chance, and also young players such as Plessis and El Zhar. So it's clearly something which is being addressed.

If any local player is good enough he'll play. If he's not, he'll pack his bags and play for Everton. Simple.

This is the point of the whole discussion. The two posters don`t think Rafa is fair when judging local players vs imported ones.
If this is true (somethink we don`t really know, as only Rafa does) and it comes from Rafa not being able to work the Kirkby team then it`s a problem.
If Rafa has a fair judgement and doesn`t think any of the locals are good enough, then there isn`t a problem.

[DannyMan2006]

Barcelona?

About as much success as us.

Don't forget we've had McManaman, Fowler, Carragher, Owen and Gerrard who have made the grade at the very heighest levels.

Then there was the likes of Harkness, Matteo and Warnock who were in the first team at some point, then you could add sme of the younger players who we bought and moulded into the first team such as Redknapp.

Since those days of great success we have struggled like every other top team (bar Arsenal) to bring through a steady stream of top class players. The biggest reason for this is the sudden increase in quality needed to make the top teams. At the moment the English league is the best in the world, we regularly make it to the last 16 in Europe, so I find it difficult to see locally developed kids regularly making the team.

This will of course mean that anyone with the ability of Matteo or Harkness will not make it at LFC. No doubt they would make the Boro or Everton squad. A player like Carra will struggle as he was a late bloomer, but I would say that someone who works hard and can fill many positions will always make it with Rafa in charge.

[Reece]

Right I've cleaned this thread up. No more personal **** - keep on topic please.

[Fubar]

well said Reece.

you can all argue as much as you like as far as i care but use better words

[friedk]

strange that with all the doom and gloom this is the most excited I've been about our reserves/academy in a very long time.

Personally I don't believe 2 FA youth cup wins and a reserve league title with youngsters in the last 3 seasons is simply coincidence; I think it is a clear sign that Rafa has implemented changes that are working.

Of course it's tougher than ever for a young local lad to make it into the Liverpool first team, but I do not buy for one second that being English or British is somehow a hindrance to progress under Rafa.

[Rashid]

strange that with all the doom and gloom this is the most excited I've been about our reserves/academy in a very long time.

Personally I don't believe 2 FA youth cup wins and a reserve league title with youngsters in the last 3 seasons is simply coincidence; I think it is a clear sign that Rafa has implemented changes that are working.

Of course it's tougher than ever for a young local lad to make it into the Liverpool first team, but I do not buy for one second that being English or British is somehow a hindrance to progress under Rafa.

Let's be fair mate, the youth cup wins have to be credited to Heighway and the reserves to Rafa and Gary Ablett. That said both are LIVERPOOL achievements and it would be better if they all worked together and stopped the bickering.

At Barcelona they play the same system from aged 9 onwards right to the first team, we need to put in place something like that.

[Parm]

Let's be fair mate, the youth cup wins have to be credited to Heighway and the reserves to Rafa and Gary Ablett. That said both are LIVERPOOL achievements and it would be better if they all worked together and stopped the bickering.

At Barcelona they play the same system from aged 9 onwards right to the first team, we need to put in place something like that.

the system at Barca is superb, but I think the contental teams will look to develop the players touch and technique and all round life, rather than the usual eEnglish way of having the kids play a ton of matches and then let go at 16/17 because their touch isnt up to foreign standards.

I have to say, I am a bit miffed as to what has happened to Ajax's fabled youth system, from the late 80's up to say 2001 ish they had a regular stream of players coming through who were amazing, but now...