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    The Youth Academy

    The following are two posts, one from Dave Usher (who has followed the youth teams for 10 years and writes for the Echo on it) and also from another follower. I find these posts disturbing, both Houllier before him and Rafa now seem to refused to work with the academy.

    FYI: Rafa didn't appoint the current director either, the guy from Ajax was appointed by Parry.

    Dave Usher

    Without getting into the debate about the various merits of different players and who is more deserving of a first team place, there is something that needs pointing out here.

    Rafa wouldn't work with Heighway, for whatever reason. So he began to set up his own 'academy' at Melwood, bringing in a lot of 16/17 year old players for the reserve side. It was initially complimented by five from Heighway's 'dream team' who were moved up to Melwood a year early (Roberts, Flynn, Threlfall, Lindfield and Darby. Spearing would belatedly follow and Hammill was already there).

    The best of the Academy crop moved up to the reserves, and those not quite good enough stayed with the 18s or were released.

    However, what we now have, is Rafa once again refusing to work with the Academy director (he has a problem with Piet Hamberg, I don't know what it is), and his own 'academy' at Melwood is growing to the point where it's becoming very, very difficult for players from the 18s to get games with the reserves now.

    Only two players were moved up a year early this time, McKay-Steven and Steven Irwin, and neither of those will be first choice for the reserves and will struggle to get many games.

    At the moment, Everton have a 16 and a 17 year old in their FIRST TEAM. I realise that's because they are desperate, but a 16 or 17 year old scouse lad at Liverpool is only going to play Academy football. They aren't even in our reserves at that age, because the 'Melwood Academy' that Ablett is in charge of provides all the players for the reserves and players like Eccleston, Amoo, Pepper, Kacaniklic etc aren't involved, even though they'd be playing reserve team football if they were at any other club (and would be getting first team games at some).

    Barring very rare exceptions (usually because of injuries or first team call ups to Abletts squad), Academy players don't feature in our reserve side.

    Any parent that sends their kid to Liverpool now must be ****ing insane. We've got too many players, and a lot of youngsters have been brought in that never had a hope in hell of being good enough for our first team.
    M.C.

    I had concerns about the Academy as soon as it was announced it was going to be built in Kirkby and not be part of Melwood. The whole structure of it is wrong.

    How can a kid who stands out with lads his own age be pulled out of a game and be put in with the reserves or first team squads. Be roughed up a bit, see how he handles things.
    The way things are now kids have to wait until there deemed good/old enough to be sent to Melwood where its make or break for them at the club.

    As we all know the step up is a huge one and more often than not these lads who have been at the academy since a very early age will be shown the exit door at Melwood.

    Kirkby or Melwood needs to go and everything like our neighbours have now done at Finch Farm should be brought together under one roof.
    As things stand now the academy is nothing more than a system to produce kids into players and then sell them on.

    I picked up an agent last year taking him to Hale (Manchester) Who told me he would never advise anyone on his books to go to Liverpool because the chances of them breaking into the first team were practically zero.

    Some people may not know this but when Rafa signed for the club part of the deal and Rafa insisted on this, was that he had full control over how the academy was run. If you want to run the academy Rafa then go to Kirkby and run it.
    The warning signs have been there for ages. Steve Highway being one of them. A double FA Youth cup winner and then on the night of his/their greatest win retaining the cup at Old Trafford he announces he's leaving the club he loves while the kids where still doing the lap of honour with the cup. Anyone remember what he said about the kid who he thought was good enough to play for the first team. Cant recall the lads name but did he ever get the opportunity.?

    Someone asked a question on here a while back about a youth players progress and would he make the breakthrough. (again cant recall his name) I answered There was no chance as he wasn't foreign. Lets just say I wasn't agreed with.

    The whole set up is a joke. I wonder how were going to pin this one on the Yanks.

    #2
    sack parry
    i own everton fans on the internet....that's what i do

    Comment


      #3
      To be honest the information doesn't quite hang together. If Rafa demanded (and got) complete control over the academy then why was he not responsible for the appointment of it's head?
      What is said there is concerning but I think we have to see how the likes of Spearing and co. do in the coming season(s) and how the added bench spot improves flow up from reserves to first team which would you would think increase the flow from the U18s to the reserves.
      "The man who never alters his opinion is like standing water, and breeds reptiles of the mind."
      -- William Blake

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by dww View Post
        To be honest the information doesn't quite hang together. If Rafa demanded (and got) complete control over the academy then why was he not responsible for the appointment of it's head?
        What is said there is concerning but I think we have to see how the likes of Spearing and co. do in the coming season(s) and how the added bench spot improves flow up from reserves to first team which would you would think increase the flow from the U18s to the reserves.
        He wanted control, he wasn't given it, so he created his own at the Acedemy and labelled it the "reserves"....

        Comment


          #5
          So this bit is bollocks then:
          [QUOTE]Some people may not know this but when Rafa signed for the club part of the deal and Rafa insisted on this, was that he had full control over how the academy was run. If you want to run the academy Rafa then go to Kirkby and run it.[\QUOTE]
          "The man who never alters his opinion is like standing water, and breeds reptiles of the mind."
          -- William Blake

          Comment


            #6
            [QUOTE=dww;1141541]So this bit is bollocks then:
            Some people may not know this but when Rafa signed for the club part of the deal and Rafa insisted on this, was that he had full control over how the academy was run. If you want to run the academy Rafa then go to Kirkby and run it.[\QUOTE]
            That's not by Dave that's by M.C. Dave writes for the Echo so his post stands more IMO. M.C. said Rafa wanted control as part of his contract, weknow he wasn't given it as it's controlled and run by Piet Hamburg who doesn't even get on with Rafa - maybe the Ajax way and Rafa way are different?

            Rafa now has his own one which he uses as reserves.

            Comment


              #7
              That's better for competition then. It will ensure that only the best players go through and top quality ones. Rafa has upped the level and has made the proper academy to be 'less complacent'. That's the thing to do.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by fredo View Post
                That's better for competition then. It will ensure that only the best players go through and top quality ones. Rafa has upped the level and has made the proper academy to be 'less complacent'. That's the thing to do.
                It would be better for competition if Rafa gave the Kirkby lads a fair chance. What the two pieces indicate is that he isn`t.
                It basically all has to with Rafas "obsession" with control, he has problems letting other people take charge. Usually this is a good thing in a manager, but Rafa is only one person and can`t cover everything 100%.
                Blank

                Comment


                  #9
                  This whole control thing seems to effect our managers the longer they stay here, Houllier had the same problem - he ended wanting to choose who cleaned the toilets at the acedemy! I think Heighway has a pretty decent record at the academy and you just don't know how kids will turn out unless you give them a chance. I want the world's best youngsters here no doubt, but I also want to see local lads given a chance. Barring Torres, the best players to pull on a red shirt these past 18 years since Barnes in his pomp have come from the academy - Owen, Fowler, Gerrard and McManaman.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Rashid View Post
                    This whole control thing seems to effect our managers the longer they stay here, Houllier had the same problem - he ended wanting to choose who cleaned the toilets at the acedemy! I think Heighway has a pretty decent record at the academy and you just don't know how kids will turn out unless you give them a chance. I want the world's best youngsters here no doubt, but I also want to see local lads given a chance. Barring Torres, the best players to pull on a red shirt these past 18 years since Barnes in his pomp have come from the academy - Owen, Fowler, Gerrard and McManaman.
                    Local lads given a chance ? Even if they are ****e ?

                    What Rafa has done is increase the competition. It's going to be more difficult but it will ultimately benefit our team. Hambug's challenge is to produce and scout for the best local talents. Nothing to do about control IMO.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by fredo View Post
                      Local lads given a chance ? Even if they are ****e ?

                      What Rafa has done is increase the competition. It's going to be more difficult but it will ultimately benefit our team. Hambug's challenge is to produce and scout for the best local talents. Nothing to do about control IMO.
                      People on here were lauding the acedemy a few days ago saying Rafa appointed the Ajax Academy Director - when he quite clearly didn't. Hamburg's role is also to get these players in the first team, but that's difficult when Rafa has his own "academy".

                      These kind of debates are difficult though because say someone like me has a downer on Rafa and others like you have your head stuck up his arse. We do need some objectivity though.

                      My mission is the style of play at all level, I hate ours at the moment.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Elements of truth and elements of half truths in there, but I can't say that I agrre with it all.

                        Going by the pre season games we played I would have to say that there is not one player that seemed ready to be given regular games. Pacheco did well but we all know he is not strong enough yet.

                        Plessis has started poorly and Heighways great hope - Jay Spearing - is not quite ready yet either. I fail to see how he could have said that Spearing was ready for the first team two years a go. Because he wasn't and still isn't.

                        There is no doubt in my mind that when we start to play well and actually start finishing teams off, Spearing and the likes will get some game time to show that they can be trusted from the start. But at the moment I don't think anyone can justify one of the youngsters starting over our first team squad. When Mascher is ready Alonso may struggle to get a game. In defence Agger is struggling to get a game. What chance does that give San Jose and Plessis?

                        The only positions we need players is on the flanks, in a few days we'll have Riera on the LW. That leaves the RW where El Zhar has been getting some game time.

                        Lets face it. If they're good enough they will play. But at this club you have to be international class to get regular games are there will not be many who make that grade. Youngsters at Everton, Boro and City will always have a better chance of breaking through earlier, but only because the strength and depth in their squad is nowhere near the class of ours.

                        We have no great problems. Before anyone points out the obvious and mentions Arsenal, I will ask you to mention another club in one of the English, Spanish or Italian leagues where they have had similar success to Arsenal. I can not think of any other club where they have brought through top class player after top class player. Lets face it, Wenger is a genius and he has had the time. Rafa may never come close to Wengers success with the youth, but neither will anyother manager.

                        I know Man Utd had a good spell at one stage, but they will struggle to ever repeat that when you need nearly 90 points to win the league. The standars are to high. Hence the reason that when we had a great prospect in Insua, instaed of blooding him we spent £7m on a new LB. Poor old Insua!
                        Forwards.......

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Rashid View Post
                          People on here were lauding the acedemy a few days ago saying Rafa appointed the Ajax Academy Director - when he quite clearly didn't. Hamburg's role is also to get these players in the first team, but that's difficult when Rafa has his own "academy".

                          These kind of debates are difficult though because say someone like me has a downer on Rafa and others like you have your head stuck up his arse. We do need some objectivity though.

                          My mission is the style of play at all level, I hate ours at the moment.
                          Were they?

                          or did you just want to start another thread having a go at LFC/Parry/Rafa etc.?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by DannyMan2006 View Post
                            I will ask you to mention another club in one of the English, Spanish or Italian leagues where they have had similar success to Arsenal. I can not think of any other club where they have brought through top class player after top class player.
                            Barcelona?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Rashid View Post
                              People on here were lauding the acedemy a few days ago saying Rafa appointed the Ajax Academy Director - when he quite clearly didn't. Hamburg's role is also to get these players in the first team, but that's difficult when Rafa has his own "academy".

                              These kind of debates are difficult though because say someone like me has a downer on Rafa and others like you have your head stuck up his arse. We do need some objectivity though.

                              My mission is the style of play at all level, I hate ours at the moment.
                              Oh don't start with this nonsense.

                              I'm backing the manager and find it extremely strange that people (you amongst others) bring forward extensive discussions about football to the point of decorticating it scientifically. That's nonsense.

                              This is a game at the end of the day. If we win the league playing ugly, I would still be a very happy man. I'm not obsessed as you mate.

                              Comment

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