Rafa Benitez issues Liverpool FC warning

[Harv]

cant believe some people actually think Spud murphy was good He was ****ing ****e

He did produce the odd moment against the Scum though

[Red Chilli]

This thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35x-dQLbQXk&feature=related

[Rashid]

cant believe some people actually think Spud murphy was good He was ****ing ****e

He did produce the odd moment against the Scum though

I used to call Biscan, Traore, Heskey and Murphy as Houllier's axis of ****e. However in the case of Murphy I can't say Benayoun and Kuyt are better - they are all average. Hence that is an example where millions could have been saved.

Which is my point.

[gerbin11]

Johnny that was a poor post mate IMO.

Danny Murphy - how has Babel replaced Murphy? Babel only came last year, I think Nunez, Benayoun and Kuyt played more in the Murphy role. Wasnt Murphy sold to help finance the Alonso deal

Henchoz - Failure or not, Pelligrino was shocking.

Alou Diarra - Currently in the French national squad and could have covered in midfield and in defence. Diarra wanted to leave as he wasn't getting first team opportunities ....... good squad player?

Milan Baros - Has done better for us than Morientes and Kuyt have done in attack. Milan Baros pld 69 scored 19, Kuyt played 68 scored 15, Baros scored slightly more but I bet Kuyt has a hall of a lot more assists so is an imtovement. (Baros han't been that sucessfull staying with any club since he left)

Hamann - Masch only came last season, he could have stayed as a squad player. Again wasn't Hamann allowed to leave because he wanted first team football and couldn't be guanrenteed it at Liverpool

Warnock - Mid table? What then of Degen etc? Dossenns currently doesn't look much better than Warnock - besided he is another who could have stayed on as a squad player.

Cisse - Tell me what has Kuyt/Bellamy/Morientes done on the wing and in attack that Cisse can't. Do you honestly believe he would have stayedto be a squad player?

Finnan - He would still be our best right back if he stayed. hasn't he stayed fo 4 years since Houllier left and so wouldn't be classed up until this month as one that was let go

As I said quite clearly, it is not that this lot are good enough for the first team, it's that they could have saved us money by staying as squad players. Instead we went and spent MORE on players not much better if at all.

[gerbin11]

I used to call Biscan, Traore, Heskey and Murphy as Houllier's axis of ****e. However in the case of Murphy I can't say Benayoun and Kuyt are better - they are all average. Hence that is an example where millions could have been saved.

Which is my point.

So who should we have bought instead of Kuyt the first year and Benayoun the second year?

[Craig_H]

Or Aurelio,Riise played right back and right mid.The point still stands.We can`t afford to replace the dross with 20+ million pound players every season.When we have spent 20 mill we bought well.(Keane can be judged after one season).

When did Riise play right back and right midfield?

[Rashid]

So who should we have bought instead of Kuyt the first year and Benayoun the second year?

Instead of buying Kuyt and Bellamy he should have kept Cisse and bought a top class world class winger with the money.

The Benayoun and Lucas money could also have been put towards another winger.

In the end we have 3 players Kuyt, Benayoun and Lucas who if they left today nobody would feel a pinch.

[Craig_H]

So who should we have bought instead of Kuyt the first year and Benayoun the second year?

I think Rashid's point isnt about who he should have bought instead of Kuyt and Benayoun.

Rashid is saying that we sold squad players for peanuts, and then spent a lot of money to replace them. But the replacements, despite costing us far more, havent been a great deal better.

So you could argue that we wouldnt have been any worse off in terms of performance and quality, if we'd kept the original squad players. Instead though, we would've been much better off financially. This then would've meant we could've used the money on top quality FIRST TEAM players, which in turn, would've probably left us far better off in terms of quality and performance.

I find it hard to disagree with Rashid on this point.

You mentioned the Baros/Kuyt comparison and it proves Rashid's point really.

In terms of output (goals per appearance ratios), Kuyt and Baros have been fairly similar.

But we sold Baros for about £3m and bought Kuyt for £10m.

Kuyt hasnt been £7m better (or more than 3 times better) than Baros, when it comes to output, has he?

[Red Chilli]

I think Rashid's point isnt about who he should have bought instead of Kuyt and Benayoun.

Rashid is saying that we sold squad players for peanuts, and then spent a lot of money to replace them. But the replacements, despite costing us far more, havent been a great deal better.

So you could argue that we wouldnt have been any worse off in terms of performance and quality, if we'd kept the original squad players. Instead though, we would've been much better off financially. This then would've meant we could've used the money on top quality FIRST TEAM players, which in turn, would've probably left us far better off in terms of quality and performance.

I find it hard to disagree with Rashid on this point.

You mentioned the Baros/Kuyt comparison and it proves Rashid's point really.

In terms of output (goals per appearance ratios), Kuyt and Baros have been fairly similar.

But we sold Baros for about £3m and bought Kuyt for £10m.

Kuyt hasnt been £7m better (or more than 3 times better) than Baros, when it comes to output, has he?

This point is easily argued.

We're not a selling club, we don't sell players who are at the top of their game (YET)

We're a buying club, we do try and buy players who are on form or have a huge amount of potential.
By that very nature, we will pay more for replcement players than we sell under-performers for

[Woobus]

As I said quite clearly, it is not that this lot are good enough for the first team, it's that they could have saved us money by staying as squad players. Instead we went and spent MORE on players not much better if at all.

They were all sold to help Rafa get the targets he wanted. If you look at the squad he took over there was only reallly one player worth 20 million or over. Now we have 4 in Gerrard, Torres Mascherano and Keane.
In the 10-20 million bracket we only really had Cisse. Now a days we have Agger, Kuyt, Reina, Babel and Alonso.
Rafa has done great wheeling and dealing and slowly building up a team, the squad is worth a hell of a lot more than it was before he joined. Rome wasnt built in a day and with an average of 20million transfer budget a year he has brought the 1st team along great. Who knows how many more 10-20 million pound players will come through the youth set up, to early to tell but the signs look good.

[Johnny]

As I said quite clearly, it is not that this lot are good enough for the first team, it's that they could have saved us money by staying as squad players. Instead we went and spent MORE on players not much better if at all.

But who`s to know,all your posturing about Benitez is grand with hindsight but when your trying to put together a squad with limited resources you have to buy and sell mid range players hoping that they`ll step up at our great club.If they don`t you replace them until you find that cheap diamond in the coalmine.IE.Skrytl,Agger and Bennayoun.You`d rather we buy one big player every season while leaving glaring holes in the squad.Since the Yanks arrived we started doing what you want.Only if the Arabs buy in will you get your wish.


Until then,It`s a slow process and most off us are prepared to wait because Rafa has not had a level playing field to play on.You on the other hand will throw your toys out of the pram every season while enjoying your infamy as Rafa`s biggest critic.IMHO you are the definition of a Wind Up Merchant.

[Craig_H]

This point is easily argued.

We're not a selling club, we don't sell players who are at the top of their game (YET)

We're a buying club, we do try and buy players who are on form or have a huge amount of potential.
By that very nature, we will pay more for replcement players than we sell under-performers for

Nothing wrong with that, except that the players we've bought in the £5m-£10m bracket, with the odd exception, have been as average as the underperformers we sold for a fraction of the price.

I have no problem with selling under performing players, but when you buy replacements for double or even treble the price, those replacements need to be significantly better performing - and in most cases, they havent been.

It's a big like selling a car for £2000 and then buying a car which is almost the same in terms of performance, for £5000.

[Johnny]

I think Rashid's point isnt about who he should have bought instead of Kuyt and Benayoun.

Rashid is saying that we sold squad players for peanuts, and then spent a lot of money to replace them. But the replacements, despite costing us far more, havent been a great deal better.

So you could argue that we wouldnt have been any worse off in terms of performance and quality, if we'd kept the original squad players. Instead though, we would've been much better off financially. This then would've meant we could've used the money on top quality FIRST TEAM players, which in turn, would've probably left us far better off in terms of quality and performance.

I find it hard to disagree with Rashid on this point.

You mentioned the Baros/Kuyt comparison and it proves Rashid's point really.

In terms of output (goals per appearance ratios), Kuyt and Baros have been fairly similar.

But we sold Baros for about £3m and bought Kuyt for £10m.

Kuyt hasnt been £7m better (or more than 3 times better) than Baros, when it comes to output, has he?

The point is this,at the time we signed Kuyt he had the potential to be much better than Baros who was pants.Telling the future is not one of Rafa`s strong points.We all thought Kuyt would be a great signing before he joined.

[Johnny]

When did Riise play right back and right midfield?

Pedant,left back..............


Post edited to make Craig happy.

[Redlife]

Danny Murphy - how has Babel replaced Murphy? Babel only came last year, I think Nunez, Benayoun and Kuyt played more in the Murphy role. Benayoun and Kuyt are much better options as back-up. I understand this discussion has somehow turned to how many of Ged's ace side we should have kept, but really it's moot. Murphy was playing all the time under Houllier, and his replacements in the first team are incomparably better, and to me that's the point. Personally, I wouldn't even have kept him as a squad player - something I'm sure he would have been totally happy with, definitely.

Henchoz - Failure or not, Pelligrino was shocking.Agger and Skyrtel? Kudos to the manager who gets it right first time all the time. Pelligrino obviously didn't work out as a first team player, but it seem like it was a valuable lesson to Rafa regarding the pace of the Premiership, no doubt. Was he a free transfer? Did Henchoz prove everyone wrong after he left? Prove he had 3 or 4 years of Premiership football in him?

Alou Diarra - Currently in the French national squad and could have covered in midfield and in defence. He may be in the French squad, but whenever I've seen him play, I can't say I see him even as a squad player.

Milan Baros - Has done better for us than Morientes and Kuyt have done in attack. The same goes for Cisse: they have their peculiar qualities, but if you're trying to play football where you place any importance on ball retention and winning games, then no, I wouldn't have either of them anywhere near the team. People point to Cisse's goal-scoring record, but there's no point one player scoring a few and doing fine if it ultimately detracts from the team's overall ability to win games.

Hamann - Masch only came last season, he could have stayed as a squad player. That's a difficult one. Like most fans, I'd like to have seen him stay forever. It's not as if he was rushed out the door though, and although he signed a contract with Man City, it'll be interesting to see how much he features at all. Hamann was such a great player.

Warnock - Mid table? What then of Degen etc? Dossenns currently doesn't look much better than Warnock - besided he is another who could have stayed on as a squad player.I'll give Dossena and Degen more than a handful of games before I write them off, thanks. Personally I respect Warnock's obvious commitment to the team, but he simply lacked ability.

Finnan - He would still be our best right back if he stayed.Really? I've felt it's been a case of diminishing returns from Finnan for a while now. A good player and servant to the club over the years, but time to move on.

As I said quite clearly, it is not that this lot are good enough for the first team, it's that they could have saved us money by staying as squad players. Instead we went and spent MORE on players not much better if at all.

There are other factors in why players are moved on too, as has been mentioned. The size of their contracts for example.


Most managers will sign more duds than successes. The question is, on balance do they get it right, and I think we're getting there. Rafa has ideas about how the team should play, and Ged's team just wasn't up to it.
It's easy to forget just how awful Houllier's squad was. We had relatively few players who were comfortable on the ball, could hold it, and pick a pass - fundamental stuff. Rafa has gone about turning that personnel around.

The Scum's first team is excellent and Arsenal's is good, but both managers have signed and rejected a gigantic shower of **** over the years to get there.