Rafa Benitez issues Liverpool FC warning

[barnes10]

"Impossible to challenge for the league" is what Rafa wants us to believe and what Houllier wanted us to believe. Liverpool fans and Liverpool managers should not be defeatist like that, that's disgraceful.

Before I bow out of this argument I ask you this - how much NET did Fergie spend in 2006 to catch Chelsea?

ok well to bring this fact into the broader debate, you're admitting that either man u made a massive stride with spending v little or that, more likely, they underperformed in 2006 compared to years previous and since? i.e. they dipped to our level in 06 and resumed normal service the two seasons since. we however maintain our progress chipping away at the gap.

this is the fact that you use to bash rafa in the spend v man u debate yet here you admit that they had a poor season relative to where they should be.
you also overlook the great season houllier's duds had in 05 finishing out of CL qualification and behind everton. so you credit GH with the 05 CL win yet the league is rafa's fault? since then we've been improving in the league which is what you want is it not?

[Woobus]

I think that's the key mate, Rafa refuses to take risks either on the pitch or in his transfers - he is very cautious and I think that needs to change.

60 million on 3 players is hardly not taking a risk, he also wanted to buy Barry for 18 million but it was the club not willing to take the risk.

[barnes10]

As Jack Nicholson said to Tom Cruise...you can't handle the truth

4 years and £200m later (£100m net) we have not mounted a serious challenge for the title. At a big club like LFC that's not good enough.

so you're not accepting of the fact that we had to rebuild a squad just because he's 'at a big club like liverpool.' if chelsea and utd can spend closer to the 500 mill mark or take 8 years to build their title winning squads, why can't we?

[Skillz]

I used to call Biscan, Traore, Heskey and Murphy as Houllier's axis of ****e. However in the case of Murphy I can't say Benayoun and Kuyt are better - they are all average. Hence that is an example where millions could have been saved.

Which is my point.

Murphy asked for a transfer as he wanted a starting spot. We just bought Alonso.

[barnes10]

The same argument can easily be reversed. No matter what anyone says, you and the backers will refuse to acknowledge where rafa has gone wrong and the mistakes he makes (often the same mistakes repeated). You wont listen because the truth will take away your head-in-sand perspective. You dont want to hear the truth.

See, it's silly.

You see it as completely black and white, the 'truth' is simply the defence of rafa and any mistakes he makes.

The actual truth is more grey, he's done a lot of good and that's what's lead to high expectations. Likewise, he makes a lot of what seem to be silly mistakes and this leaves us still without a title challenge.

It's not black and white.

what mistakes are you talking about that us 'rafa backers' (god forbid a supporter would actually back their manager) haven't explained our viewpoint of?

if we explain our view on it, it doesnt mean we deny it or have our heads in teh sand, it means we see it differently thats all.

so to repeat my question, what points that haven't been responded to already are you talking about?

[barnes10]

Rafa has been provided with players which he decided to buy, and which have been more or less ineffective.

Parry's made mistakes too, as have the board, but rafa isnt innocent of any mistakes, like you paint him out to be.

He wanted Pennant, he chose to spend £10m on Kuyt, £7m on Pennant, £6m on Lucas, £6m on Yossi.

He could have chosen to spend that £29m on a big, top quality signing, but he chose not to.

I'll tell you how it will go, the same will probably keep happening, we'll probably not challenge and in maybe 3 years time, the same people will be blindly ignoring the mistakes of another manager, while simultaneously saying how he is paying for rafa's expensive mistakes.

the only difference in approach is that it takes longer and is less risky. as long as we progress then we should be happy. if he blows 20 mill a season on 1 big player (actually even swp went for 21mill) for 2 or 3 consecutive seasons and there's an injury, doesnt settle etc then he would have made zero progress over 3 years. whilst the rest of the league (portsmouth, villa etc) are progressing and getting stronger. and lets not forget city in the future.

[Red Chilli]

It's interesting that some people believe that buying one winger for 20 million will instantly improve our league results rather than improving the squad.

Presumably this winger is going to play well for 50 odd games a season then?

[Skillz]

It's interesting that some people believe that buying one winger for 20 million will instantly improve our league results rather than improving the squad.

Presumably this winger is going to play well for 50 odd games a season then?

Considering how few real quality "wingers" there are out there and IMO how injury prone they are, getting 30 good games a season from one would be somewhat of coup these days.

[barnes10]

Just to throw a question into the mixer here

When Rafa won the title with Valencia he beat Real Madrid and Barcelona. They used to spend money left right and centre ala Chelsea and Man Utd. However, he still managed to win the title twice. At that point wasn't he saying it's not always about the money you spend and you can spend what you like and you still have the possibility of not winning the title.

Now, why can he not do this at Liverpool? Why is other teams spending now the reason we aren't challenging? If he can do it with Valencia why not with us?

Is it to do with the different league and different tactics/mentality required which aren't in line with the way he likes his teams to play?

good question and i think it'll shed a light on why he's taking time now.

Valencia he inherited a very good squad of quality players with technique and tactical nouse. he could give them instructions and they'd put them into action.

he didnt inherit that. the point he makes is that without the right balance and 'possibilities' in a squad, the realities of a league season - injuries, form, tiredness will hit even the most expensively assembled teams. this is the high risk strategy as opposed to solid, but slower progression strategy of building up the squad first then topping off with top quality.

[Pacman]

I don't understand all this bashing.

Aren't we unbeaten this season? **** me we are only 3 games in yet certain people are already slagging the manager.

[The_weatherman]

I don't understand all this bashing.

Aren't we unbeaten this season? **** me we are only 3 games in yet certain people are already slagging the manager.

I really dread next monday We have been on a par with the other top sides so far, only Chelsea have a good game to show for (Portsmouth) and we are second in the table.

It is documented that optimistic people do better in life, recover more quickly from disease, sickness and injury, do better in work and live a generally more fruitful life.

How's your health rage/sarb/rash?

Seriously, let's just see how we fare until january and take stock then, this is way too early.

[Elvoz]

Murphy asked for a transfer as he wanted a starting spot. We just bought Alonso.

murphy was told he wouldnt get a game by rafa

[Rashid]

Murphy didn't ask for a Transfer at all and cried when he told the rest of the squad that Rafa wanted to sell him. The same thing happened with Finnan - now I totally understand that Rafa has a right to sell whoever he wants BUT only of the replacement is better and I can't say they have been even by Murphy's standards.

[Red Chilli]

Murphy didn't ask for a Transfer at all and cried when he told the rest of the squad that Rafa wanted to sell him. The same thing happened with Finnan - now I totally understand that Rafa has a right to sell whoever he wants BUT only of the replacement is better and I can't say they have been even by Murphy's standards.

Rafa ight think they are better, which surely is the important thing, not whether you think they are better.

Maybe the players fit his system better than Murphy?

I think players of the standard of Garcia, Benayoun etc who play similar positions to Murphy are generally regarded as better footballers.

[Skillz]

murphy was told he wouldnt get a game by rafa

No he was told his game time would be limited in CM as he had just bought Alonso. In otherwords Rafa was being honest and right.

Unless you think Murphy should start ahead of Xabi, that is.