Rafa Discussion Thread

[Skillz]

So now we include wages? What next? Length of contracts..? This excuse making is getting ridiculous.

I would think the wage bill and its relationship to turnover would be on the very top of the agenda when the board considers transfers.

That's why when Deco signs for Chelsea for what seems an attractive fee on must also consider what wages and indeed the length of contract on offer. Pretty simple stuff really. What's he on BTW 150K/wk for 3 years? That's over 20M on top of the transfer fee for a 30+ yo player unproven in the league.

[pondus]

Sorry, a bit off topic, but I found some of it funny considering how annoyed I've been recently visiting this site

How to be annoying online

1. Make up fake acronyms. Online veterans like to use abbreviations like IMHO (in my humble opinion) or RTFM (read the ****ing manual) to show that they're "hep" to the lingo. Make up your own that don't stand for anything (SETO, BARL, CP30), use them liberally, and then refuse to explain what they stand for ("You don't know that? RTFM").

2. WRITE YOUR MESSAGES IN ALL CAPS AND DON'T USE RETURNS SO THAT EVERYONE HAS TO SCROLL ACROSS THEIR SCREENS TO READ EVERY LINE. ALSO USE A LOT OF !!!!! TO SHOW THAT YOU'RE EXCITED ABOUT BEING HERE!

3. When replying to your mail, correct everyone's grammar and spelling and point out their typos, but don't otherwise respond to the content of their messages. when they respond testily to your "creative criticism," do it again. Continue until they go away.

4. Software and files offered online are often "compressed" so that they won't take so long to travel over the phone lines. Buy a compression program and compress everything you send, including one-word e-mail responses like "Thanks."

5. Upload text files with Bible passages about sin or guilt and give them names like "SexyHousewivesI," then see how many people download it. Challenge your friends to come up with the most popular come-ons.

6. cc: all your e-mail to Al Gore ([email protected]) so that he can keep track of what's happening on the Internet.

7. Join a discussion group and tie whatever's being discussed back to an unrelated central theme. For instance, if you're in a discussion of gun control, respond to every message with the observation that those genetically superior tomatoes seem to have played an important role. Within days, all discussion of gun control will have ceased as people write you threatening messages and instruct others to ignore you.

[Craig_H]

This was directed at Sarb with no reply. So lets try with you


Nothing is more boring than the webspace you continue to fill up with your Vendetta and Agenda against one of the top managers in the world.

I am not a member of RCDNW Brigade before you start with your stereotyped answer. I see he makes mistakes, I make mistakes, most people make mistakes apart from you

Lets dig a little deeper.

What is your position within professional football?

Are you actually a Liverpool Supporter?

What professional footballing education do you have?

What is your agenda with Rafa?

Why do you believe your footballing knowledge is better than 99.9% of the footballing profession?

What is your Vendetta with Rafa?


If others have some questions for this self professed footaballing guru please feel free add to the list.

To be honest mate, that just sounds incredibly pompous and far worse than anything rashid has posted.

For the record, everyone makes mistakes but when a fan sees what he/she perceives to be the same mistakes and errors not addressed and continuing to cost us points, it does indeed become very frustrating.

Rashid does repeat his same arguments on a very regular basis, but no more so than those in the pro-rafa camp do and it's emphatically obvious that this kind of repitition is deemed acceptable if it holds a positive slant, but not so if it's critical.

In short, the only difference between how rashid posts and how some others do, is that he's critical of the manager and they're the opposite.

So why it's Rashid who gets all the abuse, i dont know. If it's tediously boring points being repeated over and over again, there's loads of guilty parties.

If rashid was continuously repeating the same POSITIVE points over and over again, you'd all be patting him on the back and 'handshake-smiley'-ing him.

[Craig_H]

I just don't see why people can't just ignore him. Why do people feel the need to try and prove him, in particular, wrong? There are many various and different opinions about Rafa's flaws and good points which get lost because people want Rashid to answer their arguments. Why should everyone only feel the need to respond to his provocative posts and not contribute positively to the discussion. Why does anyone care if Rashid agrees with them or not?

There have been some sensible posts which Rashid has responded too but both sides simply interpret the facts in mutually exclusive fashions.

If Rashid's username was changed and his post count altered, he'd be posting the same stuff with a fraction of the levels of response he gets. Some people just react because it's him.

[Craig_H]

Due to sheer bloody idleness I was using the figures from a MCFC website:

http://www.purelymancity.com/index.php/features/transfer-window-special-how-our-spending-compares/

It does put us slightly ahead, but only slightly.


It does also highlight just how insanely good at frugalness Wenger is as well. he's a **** at times, but can't help but admire his skill.

When you look at that table and then look at how well Arsenal have done over the years, you can only conclude that Wenger is incredibly good at what he does.

[Woobus]

Rashid does repeat his same arguments on a very regular basis, but no more so than those in the pro-rafa camp do and it's emphatically obvious that this kind of repitition is deemed acceptable if it holds a positive slant, but not so if it's critical.

You will find most people start using the same old boring positive slants due to people keep attacking the Liverpool players and manager. If there was less constant attacks then you wouldnt have so many positive slants thrown about.
As said before this is a Liverpool forum, surely you would expect people to be backing the team more than laying into them?

[Assassin]

To be honest mate, that just sounds incredibly pompous and far worse than anything rashid has posted.

For the record, everyone makes mistakes but when a fan sees what he/she perceives to be the same mistakes and errors not addressed and continuing to cost us points, it does indeed become very frustrating.

Rashid does repeat his same arguments on a very regular basis, but no more so than those in the pro-rafa camp do and it's emphatically obvious that this kind of repitition is deemed acceptable if it holds a positive slant, but not so if it's critical.

In short, the only difference between how rashid posts and how some others do, is that he's critical of the manager and they're the opposite.

So why it's Rashid who gets all the abuse, i dont know. If it's tediously boring points being repeated over and over again, there's loads of guilty parties.

If rashid was continuously repeating the same POSITIVE points over and over again, you'd all be patting him on the back and 'handshake-smiley'-ing him.

Many thanks for answering on behalf of rashid and sarb

It was posted in such a way to question their "footballing competence" their silence on the matter speaks more than any of their posts

[bipjohn]

Time for my 2 pennorth since I'm fairly tired of reading the same old nonsense every time I log on.

I've been a Liverpool supporter for over 35 years now, and I'm sick and tired of the fact that we haven't added to our league titles since 1990. I velieve there are a number of reasons for this so I'll try to put them into words so that my views on Rafa & the club's direction are seen in some sort of context.

Slur Alex Boozy-nose is, much as I hate to say it, an extremely good manager. He's also been backed by a club and board which have made Manure into the organisation they are today - a 70,000 seater stadium with around TWICE our matchday revenue, sponsorship deals which dwarf ours, and massively professional and successful brand marketing for their associated products. We have had a board for much of the last 18 years which still wanted and tried to do things the way we'd done them during the 70s and 80s. Our financial and marketing clout has been massivelt diminished as a result compared with them.

Chelski have had a fairy godfather which even they wouldnt have dreamed possible in the days of Bates. They dont need Manure's marketing and ticket income because their losses will get written off by the russian oil mafia. How the heck can we compete with that?

Arse have been one of the few teams which I actually admired over the last 10 years or so, but let's not forget that they spent massive amounts of money on young players early on to build up their youth set-up. Many of them went on to win the league.

Every year, transfer fees seem to inflate beyond reason. Look at Citeh just paying £32M for an unproved prima donna!

During the last 18 years, we have had the disaster of Souness -basically dismantling the traditional club set-up. We then had Roy Evans - lovely man, but wouldnt say Boo to a goose (or an Ince come to that). We then had Ged, a man who brought us that fantastic treble, but also lumbered us with some serious duds - Diouf, Cheyrou, Cisse, Biscan, Le Tallec, Diao to name but a few!

Nevertheless I felt sorry for Ged, because when all was said & done he clearly loved the club, and nearly gave his life in the club's service.

Then we got Rafa. A man who had already won league and european titles in Spain. With Houllier's side, plus his own acquisitions he managed to bring us No.5 - and that with a certain M Owen jumping ship just before the end of the transfer window!

Since the arrival of Rafa, I have been warmed at how much he, and his family, have become part of Liverpool the city and Liverpool FC in particular. Even so, he faced what I believe was one of the most difficult and challenging jobs in the whole of football. Our entire club infrastructure was in dire need of overhaul and modernisation, from the training and youth set up to the boardroom and the finances.

On the field, Rafa has had to cope with injuries, the general improvement in the rest of the teams around us in the league, signings he didnt want (e.g. Cisse), and above all, a lack of financial clout to go with it. When Rafa started, our club record signing was Cisse for £14M. It's still only £20M for Torres. What's Chelski's? Manure's? People - usually the RCDNR brigade claim he's spent more than anyone blah, blah, blah. Lets not forget that Rafa has had to invest in a youth infrastructure as well as senior playing staff. I actually happen to believe we're starting to see the emergence of youths who will either prove to be class 1st teamers, or at least provide a decent transfer fee when we sell them on. That has all taken time, effort and investment. Wenger started overhauling Arses youth set up 10 years before Rafa came to us. He won the league with many of those players

Nevertheless, somehow, Rafa's expected to deliver a title challenge with all those constraints. Last year, I genuinely believe we'd have challenged for the title but for 2 key injuries (Agger & Alonso) and the injuries inflicted upon us by the two morons who bought the club back in Feb 2007.

I admit, sometimes I am puzzled or frustrated by his team selections. Sometimes I can see people clearly having a mare on the park and Rafa replaces someone else which infuriates me. On the other hand, he's the one who deals with the players day in day out, and when all's said and done, he's the man in charge. I don't see them train. I don't know who's carrying knocks, or who's been out on the booze and unfit. Rafa does. That's why I'm prepared to defer to him in judging these things.

What I do know is that as far as I can see, there's no-one better around to manage Liverpool. Nobody more tactically astute, no-ne more dedicated, and certainly no-one else with the kind of personal integrity which I expect from a Liverpool Manager.

That's why I get p***ed off with all the RCDNR brigade. I'm not here to defend Rafa from them - I'm sure he can defend himself! But when all's said and done...

Who The Frigging Hell Do They Think Can Do Better??????????

Great post mate......spot on.

[vlahka]

Dalglish could do better. I'd have no problem letting him take us. He mentioned a few seasons ago he'd love to manage us again. Wish it would happen.

[dww]

I don't think he could. In his last few jobs he has looked like a man behind the times with how things have moved on in terms of coaching and he would need exceptional assistants and I doubt many of those would be willing to come in to a new setup like that with an old legend. In a way I think it shows the paucity of realistic options if we are looking to get back a man who hasn't managed in years.

Rafa is a top class modern manager and even if I were to accept (which I don't) that he isn't the man for us we certainly need to have a good plan for what to bring in to replace him.

[Craig_H]

You will find most people start using the same old boring positive slants due to people keep attacking the Liverpool players and manager. If there was less constant attacks then you wouldnt have so many positive slants thrown about.
As said before this is a Liverpool forum, surely you would expect people to be backing the team more than laying into them?

I back the team, but that doesnt make me blind to the problems. For some, it does.

[EwarWoo]

My other concern as well as who to replace him with, is if we give in to the whole instant successs dream how long do we give the next manager? And the manager after that? And after that?
If we sack a manager whilst he's still improving things we're heading down the road that too many clubs are now travelling with managers cycling round faster than Chris Hoy.

[Craig_H]

Many thanks for answering on behalf of rashid and sarb

It was posted in such a way to question their "footballing competence" their silence on the matter speaks more than any of their posts

I didnt answer on their behalf, i was just of the opinion that it's an open forum and we're all free to post our views.

[EwarWoo]

I back the team, but that doesnt make me blind to the problems. For some, it does.

It doesn't make most people blind to the problems. Just for most people it's not so black and white as he must be sacked or he's perfect if we show support for him.
It's possible to weigh up the pro's and cons and decide to support him despite the cons, not because you're blinded to them.
It's not as straight forward as RCDNW or RCDNR. People can be in neither camp.

[Craig_H]

It doesn't make most people blind to the problems. Just for most people it's not so black and white as he must be sacked or he's perfect if we show support for him.
It's possible to weigh up the pro's and cons and decide to support him despite the cons, not because you're blinded to them.
It's not as straight forward as RCDNW or RCDNR. People can be in neither camp.

I didnt say most people are blind to the problems, i said some.

I didnt say that it was a case of either he must be sacked or he's perfect.

I am aware of the pros and cons and i think the same cons seems to keep emerging. Mistakes must be learnt from.

I didnt say you were straight forward. And i didnt say everyone has to be in one camp or the other.

Read what i put next time