Agger rising to the challenge

[ukfootballfan101]

carra has 2 years left as first choice imo. then another 2 seasons as a 20 game a year. then life first as a defensive coach and eventually as a manager

This was the kind of debate I wanted when I posted!! I sort of agree with you, but with him not playing international football I think the 2 years might be 3 years.

The problem is there aren't many players in their mid 30's who can play 2 games a week and centre back isn't a position that can be easily rotated, its not like Giggs and Scholes at man u who can play the odd game here or 20 mintues there...centre backs are part of the spine of the team...

So according to you Carra only has 2 seasons left at the most, when it's been proved time and time again, especially with Hyppia, that top class defenders can carry on long into their 30's, and we should be looking at phasing him out now?

Why not just admit that Skrtel and Agger together have the FM X factor?

I'm not saying we need to phase carra out now, I think he is an immense player, who yet again proved his worth yesterday, BUT with the rumours about Agger being wanted by Real Madrid I think Rafa (if this is his plan) needs to be telling Agger and Skrtel that in the long term they are his first choice pairing, BUT for the next 3 years (at least) they will have to compete with Carragher and learn from him.

[Skunk]

That's what i said, Carra can't go on for ever. I said 2 years at top level, then slowly fading him out.

So why are you, and others, even talking about it now, especially after a performance like yesterday and many more this season?

A lot can happen in two years. He could get even better, or Agger or Skrtel might have left.

In two years time Gerrard will be hitting 30, lets start talking about his replacement.

[DannyMan2006]

Where did he say this? In his book?

Yes. Also says how he gets wound up by bit part players who celebrate winning a trophy as though they've played a crucial part.

Says he has the most respect for players like Nicky Butt who left Man Utd for regular football, despite the fact that he could have stayed and picked up medal after medal.

[Warren]

If they are clever which I believe they are; they know there is a job for life here at Liverpool and they are both the future of the club. Both players are still very young for defenders and there will always be injuries and some rotation. Add to that .. they are definitely different types of defenders and I think they will be used accordingly.

Something must be wrong as I actually agree with Nicey, I'm off to the doctors this just isn't right at all.............

[Skunk]

I'm not saying we need to phase carra out now, I think he is an immense player, who yet again proved his worth yesterday, BUT with the rumours about Agger being wanted by Real Madrid I think Rafa (if this is his plan) needs to be telling Agger and Skrtel that in the long term they are his first choice pairing, BUT for the next 3 years (at least) they will have to compete with Carragher and learn from him.

But nothing. Carra is first choice on merit, and Rafa doesn't need to reassure anyone about their place in the squad.

If Agger can't accept that, he's welcome to go elsewhere with my blessing.

[ukfootballfan101]

Sheringham and Maldini?

As I said in a previous post the centre back position is part of the spine of the team and shouldn't be rotated much, where as left back (Maldini's main position) and Sheringham (striker) could be rotated.

Maldini's stats for the past few years:-

2001-02 - 19 games all comps
2002-03 - 49 games all comps
2003-04 - 42 games all comps
2004-05 - 47 games all comps
2005-06 - 23 games all comps
2006-07 - 27 games all comps
2007-08 - 23 games all comps
2008-09 - 8 games all comps (so far)

According to wikipedia he has never played more than 50 games in a season, and the italian game is much slower than the premiership.

[PTP]

Sheringham and Maldini?

exactly - two players who out of literally thousands and thousands of model professionals in the last twenty years have continued to play at the top after the age of 36.

[Skunk]

If anything Sami got even better when he hit 33/34.

Tony Adams' game was revitalised in his 30's by Wenger.

Pace is overrated in football, especially at centre back, unless your Pellegrino. You can never have enough experience in that position.

But like much of football these days, people are always in a rush for the next supposed 'best' thing.

[DannyMan2006]

Fair enough - but that's RAWK, and it's not fair to bring gripes you have with one forum onto here.
I really don't see how it was implied in that original post. And even if it was, it wouldn't have been knocking him as a player, rather how long he can go on for which is a valid question IMO, and doesn't have to imply that you are also knocking his ability in any way.

It's not people openly knocking Carragher. It's more people saying Agger and Skrtel are better players. AFII even said that Agger is the best defender in the world, FFS!

As Skunk said this is all down to people failing to see that a defender must be able to defend first and foremost. As he also said the ability to bring out a ball is often thought to much of by people who see Arsenal play and think that's the be all and end all.

It took years for Carra to get the appreciation he richly deserved from the match goers at Anfield, and as soon as he finally gets to the top of his game people are again dismissing him, highlighting his faults instead of lauding his unique qualities.

It doesn't suprise me though, and nor is the criticism unique to Carragher. The grit and determiantion of English players is easily overlooked by many a football fan.

[ukfootballfan101]

But nothing. Carra is first choice on merit, and Rafa doesn't need to reassure anyone about their place in the squad.

If Agger can't accept that, he's welcome to go elsewhere with my blessing.

Fair point and I agree with you to an extent, but if Agger (or Skrtel) went into Rafa's office to ask about his place in the team I would expect him to say (like you said) you get in the team on merit, if they are playing the best they should stay in the team BUT I would also expect him to point out that they (both) are young with long careers in front of them who are good enough and if they keep working hard can be first choice for the best part of the next decade.

Great centre backs are hard to come by, we have 4, two of which are amongst the best up and coming players in europe, you don't just let them walk away if you can reason with them and help them see the big picture.

Right now Carragher is earning his place in the starting line up by playing great, but the day is approaching where his body won't be able to cope with playing 50+ games a season.

[Marky]

I'm with Skunk on this one myself.

We take Caragher for granted at times.

I read JC's book a few weeks ago...never underestimate his determination and will to play at the highest level for several years yet. Who says he's just got two years left? You cant come out with that **** when we're talkin about Carragher here.

[Reece]

It's not people openly knocking Carragher. It's more people saying Agger and Skrtel are better players. AFII even said that Agger is the best defender in the world, FFS!

Fair enough, and I'd personally disagree with anyone who doesn't think Carragher is our best defender. Just thought it all escalated from a very simple question on this thread.

[bobbyfallon]

I'm with Skunk on this one myself.

We take Caragher for granted at times.

I coloured in JC's book a few weeks ago...never underestimate his determination and will to play at the highest level for several years yet. Who says he's just got two years left? You cant come out with that **** when we're talkin about Carragher here.

[Skunk]

Fair point and I agree with you to an extent, but if Agger (or Skrtel) went into Rafa's office to ask about his place in the team I would expect him to say (like you said) you get in the team on merit, if they are playing the best they should stay in the team BUT I would also expect him to point out that they (both) are young with long careers in front of them who are good enough and if they keep working hard can be first choice for the best part of the next decade.

Great centre backs are hard to come by, we have 4, two of which are amongst the best up and coming players in europe, you don't just let them walk away if you can reason with them and help them see the big picture.

Right now Carragher is earning his place in the starting line up by playing great, but the day is approaching where his body won't be able to cope with playing 50+ games a season.

I just think you're dancing around the issue with all these references to his age. I'd respect you more if you just said you'd prefer Agger and Skrtel as first choice. No shame in that, even though you're wrong.

As for letting players walk away; if they said they wanted to leave I'd let them go in a heartbeat, but that's just me.

[bobbyfallon]

there is a big difference between being a good footballer and a good defender.

carra = proper defender
agger = proper footballer