The Fortunate Dawn.

[NicoBernetini]

You say about Lucas, Benayoun and Pennant not getting anywere near thee others first team. They are squad players.

Would fletcher, nani, kalou, malouda, tht song for arsenal and co get near our first team? No.

Squad players are there for a reason, to fill in and do a good job when asked upon if required.

[Charlie]

Heh, I see the this place is everything I've been warned about.

Oh dear.

[Aza]

C'mon Chas, you gotta elaborate on that

[rage]

Heh, I see the this place is everything I've been warned about.

Oh dear.

wait till u meet fredo

good post buddy, i was there last night and as chuffed as i am when i look at the league table we'd be stupid not to thank lady luck and recognise we've got to get better.

[MrMichael]

Heh, I see the this place is everything I've been warned about.

Oh dear.

lol, that sounds intriguing, do spill

Forn what its worth I thought that was an interesting post, but you make several assumptions that I'm very unsure about.

Firstly - yep, we have been lucky in some games. We've also displayed a lot of metal coming from behind in games and played right to the final whistle, plus we've deservedly beaten the 2 sides most pundits have as the best in the league. Neither of those wins were in the slightest bit lucky imo. Considering our record against the top sides in recent years, that's an important, and possibly crucial point.

Keane - we'll see about that one, personally I couldn't give a monkeys which players come in most people's fantasy XI's. I found the Keane signing a bit surprising too, but I reckon he deserves more than 10 games in the red shirt before we judge if he was or wasn't the right player for us. We'll see a lot more from him in future imo.

Strength in depth - sorry but I think you're dead wrong there. People love to trumpet this "they wouldn't get in the other top three's sides" thing, but its nonsense. I really don't think Bendtner would get many games for us. Or Park. Or Kalou even. Or.... well, you get my drift. We have a couple of problem positions, and a few players in the squad who are not world-beaters, but so does every team. Compare our bench to the likes of Arsenal & ManU on any given weekend - to me we come off pretty well. We currently have the strongest group of players I can remember at Anfield in many years, and a first team that almost picks itself, that's not bad imo.

Rafa - hmmmmmm, not sure he's exactly "set us up" like this in the league before. Your wording - "blinded by the prospect of confirming his reputation on the continent" seems a bit strange to me, seemingly you're insinuating that Rafa puts himself before the club? The way you talk its almost like Rafa's a stumbling block to our success rather than the possible inspiration behind it. Are you suggesting we should give up on the CL just to avoid distractions or something? Rafa is paid to deliver success on all fronts, and the rewards of Europe, given our current financial position, are arguably vital to our future. Yes we the fans want the league more than anything else, but the CL's a nice second best, no?

Don't get me wrong, I think most fans recognise that we've ridden our luck at points this season so far, and are only cautiously optimistic about the season ahead rather than getting carried away, but ffs like, its years since we've been top of the league, can't we just enjoy it a little bit while it lasts?

[ukfootballfan101]

1) Robbie Keane - He ALWAYS starts the season slowly, he hasn't scored in August since he was at Leeds. add into the mix that he's moved clubs and that could explain why we've not seen the best from him yet. I fully expect him to be a very important player for us in the 2nd half of the season.

2) Dossena - Agreed, he's not looked good, but as red g and a few others have said we should give him a fair chance to prove himself.

3) Strength and Depth. I think this is a problem depending on what position you look at. In my opinion we have one of the strongest squads in europe through the centre of the pitch, but full backs and wide midfield players are a problem.

4) I think Rafa gets how much the fans want the league title and I think he wants it to, he said something along the lines of how its his biggest challenge and harder than winning la liga with Valencia. In previous seasons the reason he has focused on europe in the 2nd half of the season is that by that point we've realistically been to far behind in the league to win it so he's focused more on the trophy we could win, hopefully that will change this year and we'll still be in a strong position in march.

[Nicey]

Heh, I see the this place is everything I've been warned about.

Oh dear.

Dave ???

[Guest]

wait till u meet fredo

good post buddy, i was there last night and as chuffed as i am when i look at the league table we'd be stupid not to thank lady luck and recognise we've got to get better.

Deleted because I've abused you.

[Nicey]

Well Charlie lets take a closer look at your piece rather than post. I think you will find there are a number of the reasons you are not getting such a warm reception for your carefully crafted piece. The main culprit being the very subtle disrespectful tone which is flows like an undercurrent right through it. An undercurrent which leads men to question your authenticity as a supporter.

I mean no disrespect but as you seem to be up on "this site" you are perhaps also aware we get our fair share of Mancs, Cockneys and general wind up merchants on here. You mention that as fans we derive out confidence from referring to the league table on Teletext. I beg to differ, Liverpool fans are famous of many things, one of our many claims to fame along with be the best looking fans in England and accolade I feel personally responsible for pushing us over the edge might I add, is our football knowledge. With this in mind, it is the squad of players our Boss as assembled, right down to the youth team which gives us confidence. Our Entire club is humming like a finely tuned machine right now. Last season our Reserves won there lg, I believe the youth set up won a number of cups and when you look at the senior squad you will see very very serious competition right across the park, in every position. Can the same be said of Arsenal or Manchester United, I am not so sure.

You mention about rotation and not annihilating lesser teams. Well I am sorry I dont subscribe to this view what so ever. Firstly Rafa, has rotated fair less this season than any other year, also stats show in previous years he has rotated marginally more than the other contenders. Secondly like it or lump it, its a part of the modern game, especially in England with the heavy schedule that the top 4 teams have to abide to each year. Anybody who has played a competitive game of football for 90 minutes or done some serious training will tell you, its not like you body can just go again 3 days later. Considering the fixture list we have just had, submit some of the England fixtures for trips to South America and it starts to put it in a little bit of perspective.

01-Oct-08 H PSV Eindhoven W 3-1 (2-0)
05-Oct-08 A Manchester City W 3-2 (0-2)
11-Oct-08 H Kazakhstan W 5-1 (0-0)
15-Oct-08 A Belarus W 3-1 (1-1)
18-Oct-08 H Wigan Athletic W 3-2 (1-2)
22-Oct-08 A Atletico Madrid D 1-1 (1-0)
26-Oct-08 A Chelsea W 1-0 (1-0)
29-Oct-08 H Portsmouth W 1-0 (0-0) 43,378

Now if we cant draft in some players to give key players a rest or players who need a rest for a home game against Pompey then when can we. Pompey also did not suddenly turn into a **** team literally over night because Magic Arry and his technocoloured vocabulary has left fratton park. There most definietly one of the toughest teams in the Lg and they set out to spoil and did a good job of it.

But as knowledgeable fans regardless of what you have heard, especially on this board, the league is won not by how you preform at home to Pompey but how you preform against the top 4 sides. And here there can be no doubt we are winning.

On your assesment of Robbie Keane and Dossena. I am sorry anybody who discounts Robbie Keane is a fool and a short sighted one at that. Robbie Keane is one the Leage top strikers, he is at a new club, fitting into a new system and is traditionally a slow starter. He is just finding his scoring boots and coming up with important goals, I think i will keep my powder dry on him and 20 million for a Premiership Striker who is regulary considered one of the best hitmen in the business is nothing. Dossena again, spunking our load a wee bit early on this one I feel. He is an attacking Left back, going forward he is sensational, a better crosser of the ball into the box I think you will be hard pushed to find. The nature of his game means he leaves space behind him, but I have every faith in his ability. I believe Rafa is using different options at leftback depending on the opposition.

As for Lucas, Benny and Pennant. I'll give you Pennant, but Benny is a vastly underrated player when he came on against Pompey he changed the game for me, not a traditional winger likes to float in as everybody knows but a very very clever and dangerous player is he better than Fletcher or one the Arsenal children .. too ****ing right he is.

As for Lucas, the lad is 21 a full Brazilian international, the youngest player ever to win the Bola de Ouro, which puts him in the same company as that over priced Tevez or the wonderful Kaka. The job he does for us mostly goes unoticed but to the trained eye he performs well. With the exception of giving the ball away cheaply 3 times in the last 2 minutes of extra time I have rarely seen him have a bad game. Bare also in mind he is trying to break into the best ****ing mid field in the world right now. I am more than happy he is in the set up.

With the exception of Chelsea we have fair more strength in depth than Arsenal and Manchester Unitied, Dont believe me, take a look at the subs benches this weekend.

As for Rafa, yes if he only listened to us we would have won the Lg years ago. The same lg which regualrly sees all of its teams make it into the qrt finals, semi finals and Finals of the Champions lg. Takes time to build a Premiership winning team, then you need your fair share of luck, (regardless of who you are and every title winning team has it) it needs support and the right mental attitude. This is no false dawn and in the same regard we are not counting any chickens just yet but if ****ing annoys me that when ever Liverpool achieve anything of note its always down to luck.

Welll I say Bollix ! to you kind Sir, We are the best team in land, we have the best record in the History of the Lg and have just made the best start in the History of the Premiership. Winning football matches and the lg is no smooth ride to the finish line .. if it was why the hell would he watch. No its a roller-coaster of highs and lows, dodgy decision, lucky goals, moronic pundits, scorching belters, get in crys of joy and exasperated dont talk to me's. For the game is in the ****ing Hunt ,... and we smelll Blood


Walk on Red Brothers and Sisters

[ronanm]

Before this 'luck' tag gets starts to tarnish our achievements so far this season, we have deserved to be where we are. We beat both Chelsea and the Scum without Torres. In the case of the latter, we then followed up with a drw against Stoke. But 3 points from the Scum and a draw against Stoke still means we deprived the Scum of the three points they got on our patch last season. So +3 points for us = -3 points for the Scum and they finished 11 points clear from us last season which now = 5. Simple maths (for the Math professors, read Wigan for Stoke last season ). Would you have preferred a draw and win respectively?? Never mind the fact we were UNLUCKY to have a goal disallowed against Stoke. If we can send squad players out against a top 6 team like Portsmouth and still get the win that's a good thing.

Keane - has yet to start scoring goals but I think he has been an excellent addition - he adds something different - his link up play and interchange of positions with SG is excellent - watch it on Saturday. Riera has also been great and offers the width we haven't had in so long. Agger is back. Lucas is still only 21 and improving. Kuyt has stepped up his game. Benayoun is a useful addition to have and Babel is coming on nicely.

If I want to 'jump up and down with delight' I will - what am I supposed to do? Apologise for the fact that we are top of the league as we have had too much luck and it's bound to run out? Be afraid to say we might win 'it' nearly 20 years later? I am telling you, this year is different.

[kev776]

Actually thats a bit harsh ... Great first post .. well written unfortunately full of utter garbage..... Charlie

You sod nicey, I was about to have a pop at you for being a bit harsh, you may not agree with his points but it was a well written post and provoked some debate which after all is supposed to be what the forum is about.

Keane was bought to strengthen Rafas 4-4-2 options, agreed he doesnt fit into the prefered 4-2-3-1 but he has to have other ideas if plan A doesnt work or Torres is rested or injured. Unfortunatly market prices and the fact teams know we have a few bob means when we buy from England, we pay through the nose. 20m for Keane and 16-18m for Barry are examples.

[friedk]

4) Rafa - So far he's been excellent, last night aside, but he's set us up before. Often many cry out 'he's finally learned!' only for him to go back to his old ways. As we progress in the Champions League, my fears are that we will again become blinded by the prospect of confirming his reputation on the continent and shy away from the Premiership - the trophy we're ultimately paying him to deliver.

Welcome to the site, but I have to say the insinuation that Rafa has some sort of personal agenda that places him before the team in order to enhance his reputation is amongst the most ridiculous things I've read.

[Resu]

4) Rafa - So far he's been excellent, last night aside, but he's set us up before. Often many cry out 'he's finally learned!' only for him to go back to his old ways. As we progress in the Champions League, my fears are that we will again become blinded by the prospect of confirming his reputation on the continent and shy away from the Premiership - the trophy we're ultimately paying him to deliver.

Welcome to the site, but I have to say the insinuation that Rafa has some sort of personal agenda that places him before the team in order to enhance his reputation is amongst the most ridiculous things I've read.

Agreed,and should he put his own retutation before the club the only thing that can increase it would be winning PL. Everybody knows Rafa is a master in the CL, but there are still people asking questions about him in PL.
Winning PL is Rafas main target, it`s just that he finds the CL "easier".

[The Birdman]

I like the fact Charlie hasn't defended his opinions or got involved in the debate/discussion, just opened a can or worms about Rafa, Robbie Keane being an expensive flop and about 'this site'
I smell WUM but will happily apologise if proved wrong.

[Kenneth]

1) Robbie Keane - He ALWAYS starts the season slowly, he hasn't scored in August since he was at Leeds. add into the mix that he's moved clubs and that could explain why we've not seen the best from him yet. I fully expect him to be a very important player for us in the 2nd half of the season.

2) Dossena - Agreed, he's not looked good, but as red g and a few others have said we should give him a fair chance to prove himself.

3) Strength and Depth. I think this is a problem depending on what position you look at. In my opinion we have one of the strongest squads in europe through the centre of the pitch, but full backs and wide midfield players are a problem.

4) I think Rafa gets how much the fans want the league title and I think he wants it to, he said something along the lines of how its his biggest challenge and harder than winning la liga with Valencia. In previous seasons the reason he has focused on europe in the 2nd half of the season is that by that point we've realistically been to far behind in the league to win it so he's focused more on the trophy we could win, hopefully that will change this year and we'll still be in a strong position in march.

It's virtually November. This 'never scores in August' thing is getting a bit old. So far, we'd have been as well playing El Zhar in his role. But we spent 20 million quid on him and he's massively underachieved. The run of top form and goals that is required from here on in for him to come anywhere near being regarded as a sucess will have to be phenominal.