Best article I've read by a fan in a while - A fresh perspective on the new stadium

[ukfootballfan101]

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http://timesonline.typepad.com/fanzine_fanzone/2008/10/new-stadium---b.html

New Stadium - Better Off Without One?
Anfield is our home. It always has been and always will be.

No matter what this new ground is going to be called, it'll still be built in Anfield, in the shadow of our shrine, but it'll never be Anfield. It could have the best facilities in world football, the greatest comfort available for football fans anywhere, with great sight-lines and superb facilities for hospitality. But it won't be a football ground. You only have to visit The Emirates to realise that.

Maybe I'm stuck in the dark ages and scared of moving on, but give me an Anfield, a Goodison Park or an Elland Road over an Emirates, a Wembley or a Riverside Stadium any day of the week. Proper football grounds with character. Stadiums that induce an atmosphere and allow passion and raw support to roll down from the stands. Homes designed to accommodate supporters, and not just spectators. The new grounds popping up around the country these days may have no obstructed views, lots of leg room and plenty of refreshment bars; but are they geared towards the traditional football supporter? The man that likes to stand with his friends, sing and support his side like decades gone by? Creating the atmosphere's that made English football the envy of the world? Not even close.

For me, things have gone way too far, with everything now geared towards those looking to sit and sample the atmosphere, rather than contribute to it. So what happens when the fans that used to create that atmosphere can no longer do so? How much of the attraction for the spectator then disappears? The English game and support is already a mere shadow of its former self. How much longer can the regression go on before the spectators replacing the supporters also start to turn their backs on the game?

Another striking point from the past decade or so; how many clubs that have moved into new stadiums have actually progressed as a club? How many clubs have been taken to the next level through building a new stadium? I'm struggling. The likes of Southampton and Coventry are now playing lower league football in half empty stadiums with not even half the atmosphere of The Dell or Highfield Road.

Ayesome Park and Roker Park used to have a brilliant atmosphere. They were proper football grounds. Just like the Victoria Ground at Stoke, and Maine Road in the middle of Moss Side. They all had character and were unique to the area and the club. They were home to each of those clubs and that in itself encouraged a different atmosphere from the sanitised version within all of their replacement bowls.

It's as if one company has the monopoly on new stadium design and construction. Each club come to them with an order, they update the previous design with different colour seats and sell it again. They must be making a fortune. Indentikit stadia popping up all over the country, with different colour seats the only way to tell them apart. I can't stand them, and it frightens the life out of me to imagine Liverpool having to play in a red version. Maybe a large version of The Riverside or Stadium of Light? Shudder.

Cardiff beat Leeds in the FA Cup a number of years ago, when Leeds were top of The Premiership and one of the best sides in Europe. They were intimidated by an electric atmosphere and beaten by a side of relative mediocrity. The intimidation factor did go beyond what some would deem as acceptable at the end of the game, but during those 90 minutes, it frightened the life out of those Leeds players. Could you imagine a repeat when Cardiff move to their new soulless bowl next year? Me neither.

I went to The Emirates for our first game at the new ground a few years ago, biting my lip and paying the £46. I had to go there at least the once didn't I? Never again.

Walking up to the ground it looks like a spaceship planted in the middle of north London. I felt like I was going to an NFL game, it just didn't have that football ground feel to it. On going up to my seat in the away end, I found a seat twice the size of one I'd seen in any other ground, and padded with leather. Leather seats in the away end; what's that all about? We stand all game anyway and never once use the seat provided, but since when have away enclosures had leather seats? I still can't get my head around that one. It's just not right. It's not football. Once again, everything geared towards fans turning up, sitting in comfort with a good view of the pitch, and going home afterwards after enjoying a pleasant game of "soccer". It's spectator heaven. A supporters nightmare.

The Arsenal home support has completely changed since their move from Highbury. Whereas they used to have a good few thousand in the Clock End next to the away fans that stood and sang, as well as pockets of others around the 38,000 capacity stadium, they're now all but diluted amongst a swarm of "new fans" at their new home. It's absolutely killed their support, who are now an army of fans that chant "who are ya" after every goal. Identikit fans. I feel sorry for the traditional support they have left that have been completely overwhelmed with the move. But as long as the club are making more money hey? The Emirates reminds me of our Anfield Road End. A sea of this new brigade that just attach themselves to one club, but all behave in exactly the same way. They dress the same, decked out in whatever garbage the club is selling that year and do exactly as they're told.

Look at last night; the place was half empty with a few minutes to go, when 4-2 up against their biggest rivals. Why would you leave early when winning in your derby? Surely anyone with an ounce of feeling for the club would be in there celebrating?

It frightens the life out of me when I imagine the new Anfield going the same way as The Emirates, or an expansion of the current Anfield Road End. The invasion of new fans taking over from the great unwashed that can no longer afford it has already diluted the current Anfield. Another 25,000 of these turning up over night gives me the shakes. When I hear the new ground being referred to has having superb sight-lines and allowing supporters to watch the game in the greatest comfort anywhere in world football I feel like throwing myself off a bridge. That's ok for the posh seats down the side where you can charge a premium to those that want them; but do the people running our clubs and designing these stadia really believe that's what supporters want behind the goal? If so, then welcome to the next step in the sanitisation of our once great game.

Look around Europe each week, and you will see fanatics behind each goal supporting their teams. A show of colour and noise from a group of fans that mirror what our grounds used to be like 20 years ago. They used to envy the support seen in grounds around England, whereas now they are laughing at us. Our game has become sanitised with the all-seater ruling, no standing, no swearing, and I'm half expecting a no singing rule to follow. The authorities in charge of our game want us to turn up, watch the game and go home, even designing the new stadia to suit their agenda. Playing music over the PA for fans to sing along to. Handing out scarves and flags for fans to wave. It's all so false, it's embarrassing, and it's also a telltale sign that things have already gone to far; that clubs have to go to these lengths to try and manufacture some sort of atmosphere. When will the penny finally drop and the real reasons for the decline in our atmosphere be addressed?

Expecting fans to pay an average of £40 a ticket week in week out, especially in the current financial climate, just cannot be sustained. More and more people are being priced out of the game, with the vast majority of those people being the ones that will contribute to the atmosphere. All of whom are being replaced by fans turning up expecting to be entertained. Only there's soon going to be nobody left to entertain them. Something has to give eventually.

The 45,000 that Anfield currently holds is more than enough. Do we really want to build a 70,000 seater stadium that will kill of our support, as well as kill of the club itself when it's half empty and not paying for itself? So much for the extra revenue it was supposed to deliver. There'll be no corporates wanting to be entertained if there's nothing left to entertain them.

Maybe I am stuck in the dark ages and trying to cling to something that's not actually there anymore? But I'll bet there's a good few thousand like me at every club around the country thinking the same way.

Well done in ruining our game.

Now when is the 3rd round FA Cup draw? I could do with a trip to a 3rd division ground with a little terrace to bring me back down to earth; to a proper football ground.

Paul Jones

Posted at 08:15 PM in Liverpool | Permalink
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I agree, is moving to a new stadium a good thing if it means loosing the anfield atmosphere?

[El Jefecito]

Luddite.

[MrMichael]

I thought that was quite thought provoking myself, not sure how much of it I agree with, but its a perspective I can see the arguments for and don't think they're all necessarily luddism (if that's a word).

[El Jefecito]

It's just some old fart complaining about the good old days and making out as though the stadium is a catalyst. It ain't.

SoccerAM, Thatcher's "I'm alright Jack" ethos, TV Money, the enriching of the working class, the global reach of football, player wages all have more to do with the situation than the stadium.

Sorry people today would much rather watch X-Factor than scream their lungs out at Anfield. Go to any non-euro home game and you'll see that it is nothing to do with the stadium and all to do with the people.

[sitoca]

Its this old school thinking that got us held back in the first place. Now we are playing catch up with the likes of Scum and Arse.

If we were to remain as it is then we are not progressing both off and on the pitch. Mr Paul Jones then just might get his wish.....seeing us play in div 3 in proper football stadium.

[The_weatherman]

I am not sure we have to build the bloody thing yet, if there is a recession won't there be fewer people willing to pay 40-50 quid for a football match? I would think so, can't see Arsenal keeping their prices so high over the nest couple of years and fill the stadium.

Overseas supporters will also hold back, obviously there will be considerably less travelling from Iceland but I would imagine that if things get tougher elsewhere as well other overseas supporters would cut down on their travels.

I have the same reservations as this guy but I think it's possible to build a stadium that suits everybody and the clubs coffers as well.

[Subby]

it's only about 1 thing...money. To "compete" in the transfer market we need money and that's done by revenue...aka...money.

I agree with him and thought it was an excellent piece. Capitalism is killing off our football but as with anything in life it, being football, evolves and it's now well and truly gone down the route of "money is runing the game" mantra

[Historyrepeatsitself]

These new stadiums do create a spectator mentality, and quickly turn their backs on the idea that we are SUPPORTERS there to get involved, not sit by and wait to be entertained.
Long live the credit crunch.

[sitoca]

The 2 jokers are right about delaying the stadium in this climate but eventually it will have to be built unless the current stadium capacity can be increased to 60,000++ I can't see how we are going to play catch up with the rest of the league in terms of revenue. Every teams seems to be building a new stadium even Spurs are building a 60K venue.

Do we want to be left behind?

[Greebo]

Whilst I understand where the writer is coming from, unfortunately, he's not taking account of the world we actually live in.

I personally am in favour of standing terraces. I think the knee jerk response to Hillsborough and Bradford in legally requiring all seater stadiums is killing the game. When we had the Kop (the proper one) you could actually decide to go to on the morning of the game and have a reasonable chance of getting in on the turnstiles. The cost was so much cheaper to stand, and the atmosphere was MASSIVE. Standing terraces allowed youngsters to go to the game without breaking the bank. They build a cameraderie that is sadly missing on the Kop these days, and there was actually very little danger from the terraces - just from the damn fences and walls they built around them.

Unfortunately, those days are gone. All seater stadia are a necessity and that also unfortunately means that we really do have to have a much bigger one if we're to keep pace with the big money clubs like Manure. I actually think the design which dumberer and moroneron (G&H) came up with is as good as anything I've seen at retaining the soul of the club (i.e. the Kop). I'd prefer us not to have to give up our "home", but on the other hand, I'd prefer us not to have to slip down the league and divisions to the point where our only joy comes from giving a premier league club a hard time in a cup match, like the Cardiff game described.

I'm in my mid 40s now. I have a 17 yr old and a 5 yr old who I'd dearly love to take to the match every week. Unfortunately, you cant get tickets for most games - matches are sold out fairly quickly - and the option to "turn up and pay" doesnt exist any more. If my kids are going to have any chance of getting to see the team they both love on a regular basis, we either need a bigger stadium, or we need to go back to the days of the standing Kop and the boys pen, etc. Given the opposition to standing terraces amongst those that make up the rules, that leaves only one option - and it isnt ending up in the lower leagues like other once great clubs like Preston, Huddersfield, Carlisle.

Lets kick out the two morons in charge (H&G), sack Parry, get the money in and build the new stadium. Maybe that way people will actually get a chance to see their beloved Redmen in action.

[sitoca]

Whilst I understand where the writer is coming from, unfortunately, he's not taking account of the world we actually live in.

I personally am in favour of standing terraces. I think the knee jerk response to Hillsborough and Bradford in legally requiring all seater stadiums is killing the game. When we had the Kop (the proper one) you could actually decide to go to on the morning of the game and have a reasonable chance of getting in on the turnstiles. The cost was so much cheaper to stand, and the atmosphere was MASSIVE. Standing terraces allowed youngsters to go to the game without breaking the bank. They build a cameraderie that is sadly missing on the Kop these days, and there was actually very little danger from the terraces - just from the damn fences and walls they built around them.

Unfortunately, those days are gone. All seater stadia are a necessity and that also unfortunately means that we really do have to have a much bigger one if we're to keep pace with the big money clubs like Manure. I actually think the design which dumberer and moroneron (G&H) came up with is as good as anything I've seen at retaining the soul of the club (i.e. the Kop). I'd prefer us not to have to give up our "home", but on the other hand, I'd prefer us not to have to slip down the league and divisions to the point where our only joy comes from giving a premier league club a hard time in a cup match, like the Cardiff game described.

I'm in my mid 40s now. I have a 17 yr old and a 5 yr old who I'd dearly love to take to the match every week. Unfortunately, you cant get tickets for most games - matches are sold out fairly quickly - and the option to "turn up and pay" doesnt exist any more. If my kids are going to have any chance of getting to see the team they both love on a regular basis, we either need a bigger stadium, or we need to go back to the days of the standing Kop and the boys pen, etc. Given the opposition to standing terraces amongst those that make up the rules, that leaves only one option - and it isnt ending up in the lower leagues like other once great clubs like Preston, Huddersfield, Carlisle.

Lets kick out the two morons in charge (H&G), sack Parry, get the money in and build the new stadium. Maybe that way people will actually get a chance to see their beloved Redmen in action.

I have the same opinion that the new stadium design with the Kop as the centre stage gives us the best chance of retaining the current atmosphere.

[The Birdman]

I guess everyone building new stadiums and benefiting from naming rights, increased revenue and new fans because of the bigger stadia is wrong and that writer has it right.

[bobbyfallon]

__________________________________________________ _______________

http://timesonline.typepad.com/fanzine_fanzone/2008/10/new-stadium---b.html

New Stadium - Better Off Without One?Anfield is our home. It always has been and always will be.

No matter what this new ground is going to be called, it'll still be built in Anfield, in the shadow of our shrine, but it'll never be Anfield. It could have the best facilities in world football, the greatest comfort available for football fans anywhere, with great sight-lines and superb facilities for hospitality. But it won't be a football ground. You only have to visit The Emirates to realise that.

Maybe I'm stuck in the dark ages and scared of moving on, but give me an Anfield, a Goodison Park or an Elland Road over an Emirates, a Wembley or a Riverside Stadium any day of the week. Proper football grounds with character. Stadiums that induce an atmosphere and allow passion and raw support to roll down from the stands. Homes designed to accommodate supporters, and not just spectators. The new grounds popping up around the country these days may have no obstructed views, lots of leg room and plenty of refreshment bars; but are they geared towards the traditional football supporter? The man that likes to stand with his friends, sing and support his side like decades gone by? Creating the atmosphere's that made English football the envy of the world? Not even close.

For me, things have gone way too far, with everything now geared towards those looking to sit and sample the atmosphere, rather than contribute to it. So what happens when the fans that used to create that atmosphere can no longer do so? How much of the attraction for the spectator then disappears? The English game and support is already a mere shadow of its former self. How much longer can the regression go on before the spectators replacing the supporters also start to turn their backs on the game?

Another striking point from the past decade or so; how many clubs that have moved into new stadiums have actually progressed as a club? How many clubs have been taken to the next level through building a new stadium? I'm struggling. The likes of Southampton and Coventry are now playing lower league football in half empty stadiums with not even half the atmosphere of The Dell or Highfield Road.

Ayesome Park and Roker Park used to have a brilliant atmosphere. They were proper football grounds. Just like the Victoria Ground at Stoke, and Maine Road in the middle of Moss Side. They all had character and were unique to the area and the club. They were home to each of those clubs and that in itself encouraged a different atmosphere from the sanitised version within all of their replacement bowls.

It's as if one company has the monopoly on new stadium design and construction. Each club come to them with an order, they update the previous design with different colour seats and sell it again. They must be making a fortune. Indentikit stadia popping up all over the country, with different colour seats the only way to tell them apart. I can't stand them, and it frightens the life out of me to imagine Liverpool having to play in a red version. Maybe a large version of The Riverside or Stadium of Light? Shudder.

Cardiff beat Leeds in the FA Cup a number of years ago, when Leeds were top of The Premiership and one of the best sides in Europe. They were intimidated by an electric atmosphere and beaten by a side of relative mediocrity. The intimidation factor did go beyond what some would deem as acceptable at the end of the game, but during those 90 minutes, it frightened the life out of those Leeds players. Could you imagine a repeat when Cardiff move to their new soulless bowl next year? Me neither.

I went to The Emirates for our first game at the new ground a few years ago, biting my lip and paying the £46. I had to go there at least the once didn't I? Never again.

Walking up to the ground it looks like a spaceship planted in the middle of north London. I felt like I was going to an NFL game, it just didn't have that football ground feel to it. On going up to my seat in the away end, I found a seat twice the size of one I'd seen in any other ground, and padded with leather. Leather seats in the away end; what's that all about? We stand all game anyway and never once use the seat provided, but since when have away enclosures had leather seats? I still can't get my head around that one. It's just not right. It's not football. Once again, everything geared towards fans turning up, sitting in comfort with a good view of the pitch, and going home afterwards after enjoying a pleasant game of "soccer". It's spectator heaven. A supporters nightmare.

The Arsenal home support has completely changed since their move from Highbury. Whereas they used to have a good few thousand in the Clock End next to the away fans that stood and sang, as well as pockets of others around the 38,000 capacity stadium, they're now all but diluted amongst a swarm of "new fans" at their new home. It's absolutely killed their support, who are now an army of fans that chant "who are ya" after every goal. Identikit fans. I feel sorry for the traditional support they have left that have been completely overwhelmed with the move. But as long as the club are making more money hey? The Emirates reminds me of our Anfield Road End. A sea of this new brigade that just attach themselves to one club, but all behave in exactly the same way. They dress the same, decked out in whatever garbage the club is selling that year and do exactly as they're told.

Look at last night; the place was half empty with a few minutes to go, when 4-2 up against their biggest rivals. Why would you leave early when winning in your derby? Surely anyone with an ounce of feeling for the club would be in there celebrating?

It frightens the life out of me when I imagine the new Anfield going the same way as The Emirates, or an expansion of the current Anfield Road End. The invasion of new fans taking over from the great unwashed that can no longer afford it has already diluted the current Anfield. Another 25,000 of these turning up over night gives me the shakes. When I hear the new ground being referred to has having superb sight-lines and allowing supporters to watch the game in the greatest comfort anywhere in world football I feel like throwing myself off a bridge. That's ok for the posh seats down the side where you can charge a premium to those that want them; but do the people running our clubs and designing these stadia really believe that's what supporters want behind the goal? If so, then welcome to the next step in the sanitisation of our once great game.

Look around Europe each week, and you will see fanatics behind each goal supporting their teams. A show of colour and noise from a group of fans that mirror what our grounds used to be like 20 years ago. They used to envy the support seen in grounds around England, whereas now they are laughing at us. Our game has become sanitised with the all-seater ruling, no standing, no swearing, and I'm half expecting a no singing rule to follow. The authorities in charge of our game want us to turn up, watch the game and go home, even designing the new stadia to suit their agenda. Playing music over the PA for fans to sing along to. Handing out scarves and flags for fans to wave. It's all so false, it's embarrassing, and it's also a telltale sign that things have already gone to far; that clubs have to go to these lengths to try and manufacture some sort of atmosphere. When will the penny finally drop and the real reasons for the decline in our atmosphere be addressed?

Expecting fans to pay an average of £40 a ticket week in week out, especially in the current financial climate, just cannot be sustained. More and more people are being priced out of the game, with the vast majority of those people being the ones that will contribute to the atmosphere. All of whom are being replaced by fans turning up expecting to be entertained. Only there's soon going to be nobody left to entertain them. Something has to give eventually.

The 45,000 that Anfield currently holds is more than enough. Do we really want to build a 70,000 seater stadium that will kill of our support, as well as kill of the club itself when it's half empty and not paying for itself? So much for the extra revenue it was supposed to deliver. There'll be no corporates wanting to be entertained if there's nothing left to entertain them.

Maybe I am stuck in the dark ages and trying to cling to something that's not actually there anymore? But I'll bet there's a good few thousand like me at every club around the country thinking the same way.

Well done in ruining our game.

Now when is the 3rd round FA Cup draw? I could do with a trip to a 3rd division ground with a little terrace to bring me back down to earth; to a proper football ground.

Paul Jones

Posted at 08:15 PM in Liverpool | Permalink
__________________________________________________ _______________


I agree, is moving to a new stadium a good thing if it means loosing the anfield atmosphere?

no
yes
yes

[Darth Marty]

It is a thought provoking piece, I was ready to condemn it and say "thats what we have to do to merely keep up" until I read the part about the prices and the economy. I do wonder myself if the game is sustainable because at present costs are huge and money is tight, if attendances fall will ticket prices or will they go up to try and retain the revenue?

Its a good piece and im going to be devastated when Anfield finally dies her death but I do think we need a new stadium asap. Just try and make it different.

[MrMichael]

It is a thought provoking piece, I was ready to condemn it and say "thats what we have to do to merely keep up" until I read the part about the prices and the economy. I do wonder myself if the game is sustainable because at present costs are huge and money is tight, if attendances fall will ticket prices or will they go up to try and retain the revenue?

Its a good piece and im going to be devastated when Anfield finally dies her death but I do think we need a new stadium asap. Just try and make it different.