Kids ?

[rage]

I'll give it a shot too:

Fabianski- Very very good keeper who pulled of some very good saves yesterday and rated massively at Arsenal

Djourou- Average. Never in a million years would he get into our 1st team - agreed

Song- Average, never get near our team - agreed

Gibbs- Looks a fantastic talent

Gavin Hoyte- Championship agreed

Randall- Looks outstanding

Ramsay- I don't think the price is relevant but also oustanding

Merida- Looks very good

Simpson- Great young striker

Vela- Outsanding

Wilshire - Oustanding

it would be nice for us to put out a similar team tonight and see whether our prospects can make the step up also.

i know wenger has his flaws but this discussion is about bringing players through, something we have failed to do for many years now.

[red g]

it would be nice for us to put out a similar team tonight and see whether our prospects can make the step up also.

i know wenger has his flaws but this discussion is about bringing players through, something we have failed to do for many years now.

i would love to see wengers carling cup team 5 years ago and see how many came through!

[El Jefecito]

i would love to see wengers carling cup team 5 years ago and see how many came through!

Almunia, Eboue, Cygan, Campbell, Senderos, Larsson, Muamba, Song, Owusu-Abeyie, Van Persie, Lupoli.

See post #15

[Diego]

I'll give it a shot too:

Fabianski- Very very good keeper who pulled of some very good saves yesterday and rated massively at Arsenal i'd say the verdict is still out on him. He has confidence and that goes a long way, but wheather he's ready to boss the box i'm not sure off

Djourou- Average. Never in a million years would he get into our 1st team - agreed

Song- Average, never get near our team - agreed

Gibbs- Looks a fantastic talent

Gavin Hoyte- Championship agreed

Randall- Looks outstanding

Ramsay- I don't think the price is relevant but also oustanding

Merida- Looks very good

Simpson- Great young striker dissagree, thought he was quite poor despite the two goals, in both cases it was a case of individual brilliance from other players that created the chances for him. For the rest of the game he was trying nad nothing worked out for him, defense dealt with him easilly. Overrated

Vela- Outsanding

Wilshire - Oustanding

other than that i agree with you. But what people seem to forget when they are talking about individual players and comparing them with ours, it's about the team. There where only 3 palyer i saw yesterday that where exeptional as individuals Ramsay, Wilshire and Vela. The rest where brilliant as a team. Often gifted players stand in the way of the team and wont allow the team to flourish, i believe this is what rafa thought of gerrard when he came here first, since then gerrard has become much more of a team player. There are players in the arsenal first team that aren't up to our standards but it's the way these individuals play in the team that matters. The movement of the entire team how they pressed wigan for 90 minutes and closed spaces, that's what was most impressive for me. How they worked as a team. And thats what we are trying to teach our kids at the academy.

[PTP]

other than that i agree with you. But what people seem to forget when they are talking about individual players and comparing them with ours, it's about the team. There where only 3 palyer i saw yesterday that where exeptional as individuals Ramsay, Wilshire and Vela. The rest where brilliant as a team. Often gifted players stand in the way of the team and wont allow the team to flourish, i believe this is what rafa thought of gerrard when he came here first, since then gerrard has become much more of a team player. There are players in the arsenal first team that aren't up to our standards but it's the way these individuals play in the team that matters. The movement of the entire team how they pressed wigan for 90 minutes and closed spaces, that's what was most impressive for me. How they worked as a team. And thats what we are trying to teach our kids at the academy.

- the latter part of ur point is what i was trying to get at, obv there was a few eye catchin displays from indiviuals, and there may be half a dozen lads from last night that end up playing championship football - but..........the way that group of lads, clicked and played as a team is what makes it so impressive and thats what clubs up and down the country are trying to replicate - it's no as black and white as comparing our youngsters to theirs as such -it' not to do with finding a 10yr old steven gerrard doing keep ups outside the ground, or about who can poach the best prospects around the world - it's how wenger gets them to gel and play together that everyone wants to see at their own clubs.

No doubt we have some talented kids at the club, and they have been succesful in their 'league' - but are we in a position were tonight we could play a team with an average age of 19, without any 1st teamers and be so pleasing to watch?

[Dessy]

Slight digression but was it not just a joy to watch a young side entertain with some 'pure' football? Was it not just refreshing to see the hunger and passion from each and everyone of them to play the game as it was intended? No diving, cheating, moaning at Ref etc? They just got on with it and WANTED to play football and did play football.

I enjoyed every minute of their performance to be honest and would love to see some of our own young talent blooded in comp's such as the Carling Cup.

[Diego]

- the latter part of ur point is what i was trying to get at, obv there was a few eye catchin displays from indiviuals, and there may be half a dozen lads from last night that end up playing championship football - but..........the way that group of lads, clicked and played as a team is what makes it so impressive and thats what clubs up and down the country are trying to replicate - it's no as black and white as comparing our youngsters to theirs as such -it' not to do with finding a 10yr old steven gerrard doing keep ups outside the ground, or about who can poach the best prospects around the world - it's how wenger gets them to gel and play together that everyone wants to see at their own clubs.

No doubt we have some talented kids at the club, and they have been succesful in their 'league' - but are we in a position were tonight we could play a team with an average age of 19, without any 1st teamers and be so pleasing to watch?

this is exactly why reserve medals or FA youth cups mean dick ****. If they learn how to play this certain way, win or loose then they can be given a chance in the first team. As wenger clearly wants the first team and the youth teams to play the same football. Thats what benitez wants as well it just takes time.

[BG1973]

These young 'kids' wont change a great deal for them because only 2/3 will make it into the first team

and even then the likes of vela has to oust adebayor, van persie, eduardo and walcott to get a game..is he that good? is he the next Owen / rooney? When will he get that opportunity?

[Chrono]

and even then the likes of vela has to oust adebayor, van persie, eduardo and walcott to get a game..is he that good? is he the next Owen / rooney? When will he get that opportunity?

He is that good certainly and is already on Eduardo/Walcotts level in my opinion and has potential to be better than the other two although obviously at the moment that is pure hype.

[dww]

To be fair Walcott has been playing on the wing and van Persie is constant injury worry. As they seemed to be looking to van Persie to partner Adebayor he is for the most part in a fight with Eduardo in the long term.

I'd also say that three first team players in addition to the likes of Fabregas, Diaby, Toure and Clichy who have already been developed amounts to a pretty significant contribution to their first team from their reserve ranks. it's not evident that they will change things as it is a long running program but they will certainly sustain the way Wenger has been able to be so thrifty over the years.

[G]

The one and only gripe I have with Rafa is that our youngsters,and I mean lads like Spearing,Darby,Nemeth,Amoo,Pourie etc aren't given games in the Carling cup.The likes of Lucas you could argue for but our first team squad members shouldn't be near games like this.Rafa should use it Like Wenger does IMO but then the Arsenal way has yet to produce a team thats won anything more than plaudits so who can truly claim theirs is the right way to go.No one can truly compare the talent of our kids compared to Arsenals until the are given the platform to show it.For me it would have the added bonus of giving the entire first team squad a rest thus reducing the amount of times they'll need rotating for important games in the league and Europe.

[Craig_H]

Well, the point ultimately in football is winning isn't it? If you're going to be pedantic like......

Well yes of course, but not at reserve or youth team level. Piet Hamburg himself said this too, as you'll have read yourself, Mr White Text Man

[dww]

The one and only gripe I have with Rafa is that our youngsters,and I mean lads like Spearing,Darby,Nemeth,Amoo,Pourie etc aren't given games in the Carling cup.The likes of Lucas you could argue for but our first team squad members shouldn't be near games like this.Rafa should use it Like Wenger does IMO but then the Arsenal way has yet to produce a team thats won anything more than plaudits so who can truly claim theirs is the right way to go.No one can truly compare the talent of our kids compared to Arsenals until the are given the platform to show it.For me it would have the added bonus of giving the entire first team squad a rest thus reducing the amount of times they'll need rotating for important games in the league and Europe.

The thing is that in recent years Wenger hasn't really used it in this way. He seems now to feel (again) he has a group of players at the right stage of development to give the chance to. We are way behind their curve and to some degree we have to accept that it is a long term building process.

[Woobus]

For me it would have the added bonus of giving the entire first team squad a rest thus reducing the amount of times they'll need rotating for important games in the league and Europe.

I think these games are perfect for keeping the rest of the squad match fit, I doubt many of the proper first 11 will be playing much tonight. I really dont see the need to rush our young players through just as if they have a stinker it can ruin there confidence. Jack Hobbs is a perfect example of this, used to early and it had an effect on him for a while.

[Craig_H]

What's the point of developing young kids if it doesn't help the team in a 'collective' sense afterwards?

Case in point, in France Nantes is renowned for their world class youth policy and their ability to churn out top class youngsters but they haven't won anything for ages.

Having a great youth policy yes, but it has to be done in the right way. If a kid is good enough by our own standards, he'll make it to the top. In Arsenal's case, Wenger is justifying his youth policy by playing them early in the Carling cup because he can't do it in the league because they aren't good enough.

The point in developing kids is that some of them make the grade at 1st team level and save you a few quid in the transfer market.

As a club which churned out McManaman, Owen, Fowler, Carragher and Gerrard, i think we of all people should know the benefits.

Nantes probably had to sell most of the kids they brought through who proved good enough, in order to survive. That's what happens at some clubs, West Ham for example. I'm not saying that winning things isnt the most important thing, but everything helps to contribute, including bringing through talented youngsters who can contribute to the first team if and when they're good enough (saving us money on transfers), or can be sold to generate revenue if they're not. This is one thing which can help the club be successful.

I cant believe you genuinely dont see my point, i think you're just arguing for the sake of it.