Something commentator said : West Ham

[NICKZS]

get off your high horse - I am looking at this objectively. I was repeating what the commentator said last night about 10 strikers bought for the first team in 5 years. Pointing out players is hardly having a whinge. If you have nothing sensible to add then don't reply.

To compare crouch to van nistleroy is a joke. If rafa had wanted crouch to stay i'm sure he would have done - but he wasn't deemed good enough and moved on. That's not my measure - but rafas.

And don't insult me by suggesting i'm not behind the team or the manager. Dickhead.

That's your opinion, and it's also bollocks as far as I can tell.

[ntto]

Wenger gets praised for bringing in players and selling them at a profit but for some reason Rafa should get slated? Crouch had a good Liverpool career and was a success.

I wasn't slating rafa. Gees

Typically Wenger has sold players who either have wanted to go or else were past their prime (in his opinion). And Wenger is the master at getting great fees for his players.

Why did rafa sell crouch if he was such a success?

[Craig_H]

I wasn't slating rafa. Gees

Typically Wenger has sold players who either have wanted to go or else were past their prime (in his opinion). And Wenger is the master at getting great fees for his players.

Why did rafa sell crouch if he was such a success?

Erm...

I think Crouch was actually sold because his contract was winding down and he wouldnt sign a new one because he wasnt getting regular 1st team football.

Rafa was sold on this 4231 system, same as he used to great effect at Valencia. Crouch was doing the business, but if you play 1 striker, nobody can justifiably claim a spot ahead of Torres. So Crouch wanted out and wasnt going to extend his contract. We either had to sell him or see him leave on a Bosman.

What was unfortunate was that after seeing that 4231 system work so well, Rafa then felt he had to try and accommodate Keane and went back to 442, which i dont think we're brilliant at playing, personally.

[powerpack]

Isnt this something of a contradiction? If he's premiership proven and established, why do we have to wait a season to judge him? The whole reason domestic based players are overpriced, is because they're not meant to need time to 'settle' or adjust.

I suppose it is a bit Craig but I never assume any player to adjust. I do see where you are coming from, domestic players should adjust quicker then foreign ones but thats not always the case. I didn't esxpect Torres to deliver as quickly as he did! I think what I was trying to say was that he needs more time to settle in. Maybe he's putting too much pressure on himself being a red and all that. He's been a success pretty, much everywhere he has been but has a reputation as a slow starter so lets giving him time, in Rafa we trust!

[Craig_H]

I suppose it is a bit Craig but I never assume any player to adjust. I do see where you are coming from, domestic players should adjust quicker then foreign ones but thats not always the case. I didn't esxpect Torres to deliver as quickly as he did! I think what I was trying to say was that he needs more time to settle in. Maybe he's putting too much pressure on himself being a red and all that. He's been a success pretty, much everywhere he has been but has a reputation as a slow starter so lets giving him time, in Rafa we trust!

In all honesty, i think it's a combination of things and i think the team hasnt really performed effectively with the 442, which isnt Keane's fault.

It's fair to say that moving clubs will usually have an impact and people would need to adjust and settle in most of the time, but generally speaking, i'd like to think that when you pay £20m you'd hopefully bypass that process, or at least go through it in a somewhat 'fast track' method, because you're generally paying that kind of money partly due to the theory that the player is of a high enough calibre to hit the ground running fairly soon.

I cant fathom the Keane thing really, because he IS a very good player and you dont have years of success like he has done, without being good.

Something isnt working though and i think Rafa is as out of ideas as we are, when it comes to this situation. It's his job to rectify it and at the moment, i think he's just letting it carry on, in the hope that it'll just suddenly click. Logically it should do, but it's taking too long.

[Woobus]

Think one of Keanes problems has been due to Torres injury, he hasnt been allowed to form a partnership with a player yet. He seems to be a player who thrives with another good striking partner.
We have seen with Berbatov as well not firing yet for United that it can take time for a bond to gel.

[Vermilion]

Well, i'm standing by my opinion, well lets say prediction of hope rather than opinion, that Keane will become our secret weapon towards the business end of the season and start banging them in at will.

Thing is i hadn't predicted Torres getting ****in injured, which unfortunately requires Keane to start banging in a few right now, but hey...i'm not Mystic Meh .

[dww]

Rafa was sold on this 4231 system, same as he used to great effect at Valencia. Crouch was doing the business, but if you play 1 striker, nobody can justifiably claim a spot ahead of Torres. So Crouch wanted out and wasnt going to extend his contract. We either had to sell him or see him leave on a Bosman.

What was unfortunate was that after seeing that 4231 system work so well, Rafa then felt he had to try and accommodate Keane and went back to 442, which i dont think we're brilliant at playing, personally.

There is definitely something in this analysis but I think that Rafa feels we need more than one formation that can fluidly be changed between. In that context Keane is a more useful player in terms of the fact Rafa feel she can do a job as part of the three behind a main striker.

I think we have struggled to adjust to the 4-4-2 formation at times but we have also done well with it at times. The key seems to be getting balance from the wide midfield players. At the minute Riera has started to drift in leaving us too narrow (which had always been a problem for us before his arrival).

I also think that in order to play a 4-4-2 as a top team we need players who are more mobile than Crouch. He puts in the running but it is easy for defenders to pass the job of marking him on to one another and if we are building from deep that means we have to look to play it long up to him to make room for others and the long ball approach is low percentage one.

I really like Crouch but I think it is difficult to accomodate him in a team that has aspirations to win the league. He would be a staggeringly good option/reserve and I think he would have benefited from having Riera in the team but as you say he wanted to start regularly (who can blame him) and we would never have been able to offer that to him. It is a shame we had to let him go but I don't think Rafa realistically had any choice in the matter.

I think in general that Rafa has done reasonably well on price/quality basis with his striker purchases. Keane was/is a massive gamble that is certainly yet to pay off. I think he has aspects to his game that if harnessed could be a real benefit, however he really does have to start stepping up and really putting in performances.

[Craig_H]

The point about signing Keane because he could be used in any of the 3 attacking mid options in the 4231 baffles me somewhat, because he's never really been used as an attacking midfielder, at least not successfully, and even less so as a wide option.

It begs the question why we didnt just sign a player who IS an attacking midfielder, and capable of playing wide in that system. I wonder whether an Arshavin type would've been the better choice.

[AFII]

Rafa hasn't been able to spend really big on one player before he signed Torres.

Before that he had to build up a squad and couldn't afford to risk spending big on one player.

That means that it's a bigger chance that the player will be miss than a hit.

[dww]

The point about signing Keane because he could be used in any of the 3 attacking mid options in the 4231 baffles me somewhat, because he's never really been used as an attacking midfielder, at least not successfully, and even less so as a wide option.

It begs the question why we didnt just sign a player who IS an attacking midfielder, and capable of playing wide in that system. I wonder whether an Arshavin type would've been the better choice.

I'm not sure if you are referring to my saying it or the fact that Rafa once mentioned it (IIRC) but I was more thinking of him playing deeper in a central role which he has done or switching to the side for parts of a game. I don't see a big difference between the deep striking role often played by the likes of Rooney and arguably Kuyt when central last night and some varieties of attacking midfielder.

I think the reason that Keane was bought ahead of an attacking midfelder was that he game more options (when combined with the purchase of Riera) as I think Rafa believes he can play up front on his own (cover for Torres) and as part of a partnership alongside filling in slightly deeper.

I wouldn't have chosen Keane myself but I think the logic in doing so is quite strong. If we had bought an attacking midfielder we would still have needed a striker IMO. I still want one to come in now, especially seeing as how Babel seem to be out of favour who I think could do a job there at times.

[Craig_H]

Thing is though, it smacks of signing a player who's 'alright at lots of things but not brilliant at anything'. We have too many of those in my view.

[dww]

I can see that point of view but I thought that at Spurs he had become a very natural second striker and made a lot of the type of runs that we lack and was also a consistently creative forward. However he seems not to have struck any understanding with Torres and is badly out of form in front of goal. I think he did offer a potentially brilliant signing but the questions about his mentality that some people had before he came (added to the fact he required a change in our style of play) have so far prevented that from coming to the fore.

[AFII]

The big question mark to why he signed Keane is that he plays in the same position as Gerrard did last season, as the second striker.

Torres and Gerrard was the best attacking partnership in the PL last season, no need to change that.

I think that Rafa signed Keane and thought that Alonso would leave and Barry signed. That would have meant that Gerrard would have played deeper with Keane taking Gerrard's position as the second striker.

Alonso stayed and no Barry, that ****ed up Rafa's plans.

[dww]

The big question mark to why he signed Keane is that he plays in the same position as Gerrard did last season, as the second striker.

Torres and Gerrard was the best attacking partnership in the PL last season, no need to change that.

I think that Rafa signed Keane and thought that Alonso would leave and Barry signed. That would have meant that Gerrard would have played deeper with Keane taking Gerrard's position as the second striker.

Alonso stayed and no Barry, that ****ed up Rafa's plans.

There was a clear need though to add more goals and if Rafa felt that getting in a second striker and playing Gerrard in CM that seems reasonable, no?

I also think it can be taken as a lack of faith in the other forwards in the squad to cover for Torres.