Sack Rafa, Fergie, Scolari and Wenger

[G]

I find myself being driven mad at this point looking at this and many other forums and seeing what they have decended into.

Listening to kn0bs calling in to phone in's wanting Rafa out, Rafa this Rafa that.

Has anyone come up with a viable, avaliable, realistic alternative to one of European Footballs most successful managers over the last 5 years?

Please.....tell me, who do you all think could replace him?

Curbishley?

I find myself appaled at 'Supporters' audible booing at Liverpool players, and yes this has also happened in the past, We have had a scapegoat in every team, Kevin MacDonald, Ray Houghton to an extent, Don Hutchison, Danny Murphy, Harry Kewell and now Lucas. Some of them you could argue have been justified, others not. But you know what, not one of those and the many others got better by being booed.

The 'supporters' (yes, in inverted commers) on here who are moaning and moaning, you know who you are, did you watch us in the 90's? Did you watch Kozma? Did you watch Stewart, Dicks, Ruddock, Collymore, who didnt give a toss about the Red shirt? Did you watch Piechnik, Tanner, Hooper, Kvarme, Jimmy Carter; who simply werent good enough?

Nobody has the same opinion, thats what its all about.
Babel to some should start more, some say he shouldnt
Keane, to me personally should do his talking by playing football when he is on instead of constantly gesturing and moaning.
Riera, some think hes good others think hes crap.

I really belive that we have 4, possibly 5 world class players on our team right now. We have potentially 3 or 4 others who can be good enough on their day.

The point Im trying to make is that you cant please everyone. Rafa has the benefit of seeing players for 5 or 6 days a week, wathicng them train seeing there attitude on the training pitch and making his decisions from that, nobody here has that.

I know we have dropped too many points at home, and yes, we might regret it, but when did the last team, and I include Liverpool great 70s and 80s sides every win 38/38 games or 42/42 as it was then? When did that happen? Can anyone quote the season?

Its a 100% given fact, we have no divine right to win every game, neither will we. The other undeniable fact is that we are top, and whilst our failings have been at home, others have failed in other areas. Its down to very fine margins, poor refereeing against Stoke, unlucky against West Ham (I know Bellamy could have scored, but we dominated) unlucky against Hull (Brown complained about our goal-I say he was lucky for the OG because JC certainly did not commit a foul in the lead-up).

We can win this title, but we have to collectivly get behind them, not question them. Every time you boo, you go on a phone in and question it adds ammunition to the tossers like Collymore, Gray etc who take great delight in adding to the pressure and critisising more.

Anyhow, pick my thread to pieces, have a go at me, tell me Im deluded and looking through Rafa tinted specs and you know what, I actually dont care in the slightest what a gang of WUM's think on internet forum.

What I do know is I am Liverpool Football Club through and through, think and thin, wind and rain-you know the words in OUR SONG, I have been a seaon ticket holder for 15 years and gone to matches for 20+ home and away, abroad more times than I can remember frendlies and all. I saw us 3-0 down at home to chesterfield...I believed, I saw us 3-0 down in istabul and I believed, I saw us snatch FA Cups from Arsenal and W Ham, and I saw us get through tragedies other clubs will never and have never had to endure. This is Liverpool Football Club, we are not like any other, we are privileged to be part of it. and you know what I dont care what anyone thinks, THIS IS MY TEAM and I WILL 'SUPPORT' it to the very end, and I WILL BELIEVE until its mathematically possible in the manager and the players that we CAN WIN IT THIS YEAR.

Bravo

Top stuff indeed

[Craig_H]

It would have been a bit far fetched to have expected us to be 9 points clear at the top. There's nothing which separates us with Chelsea and Man Utd ... albeit very fine margins. So again, I think the table doesn't lie.

Far fetched to beat Fulham, WHU, Stoke and Hull at Anfield?

Go and support everton mate, if that's your level of expectation.

[Craig_H]

I find myself being driven mad at this point looking at this and many other forums and seeing what they have decended into.

Listening to kn0bs calling in to phone in's wanting Rafa out, Rafa this Rafa that.

Has anyone come up with a viable, avaliable, realistic alternative to one of European Footballs most successful managers over the last 5 years?

Please.....tell me, who do you all think could replace him?

Curbishley?

I find myself appaled at 'Supporters' audible booing at Liverpool players, and yes this has also happened in the past, We have had a scapegoat in every team, Kevin MacDonald, Ray Houghton to an extent, Don Hutchison, Danny Murphy, Harry Kewell and now Lucas. Some of them you could argue have been justified, others not. But you know what, not one of those and the many others got better by being booed.

The 'supporters' (yes, in inverted commers) on here who are moaning and moaning, you know who you are, did you watch us in the 90's? Did you watch Kozma? Did you watch Stewart, Dicks, Ruddock, Collymore, who didnt give a toss about the Red shirt? Did you watch Piechnik, Tanner, Hooper, Kvarme, Jimmy Carter; who simply werent good enough?

Nobody has the same opinion, thats what its all about.
Babel to some should start more, some say he shouldnt
Keane, to me personally should do his talking by playing football when he is on instead of constantly gesturing and moaning.
Riera, some think hes good others think hes crap.

I really belive that we have 4, possibly 5 world class players on our team right now. We have potentially 3 or 4 others who can be good enough on their day.

The point Im trying to make is that you cant please everyone. Rafa has the benefit of seeing players for 5 or 6 days a week, wathicng them train seeing there attitude on the training pitch and making his decisions from that, nobody here has that.

I know we have dropped too many points at home, and yes, we might regret it, but when did the last team, and I include Liverpool great 70s and 80s sides every win 38/38 games or 42/42 as it was then? When did that happen? Can anyone quote the season?

Its a 100% given fact, we have no divine right to win every game, neither will we. The other undeniable fact is that we are top, and whilst our failings have been at home, others have failed in other areas. Its down to very fine margins, poor refereeing against Stoke, unlucky against West Ham (I know Bellamy could have scored, but we dominated) unlucky against Hull (Brown complained about our goal-I say he was lucky for the OG because JC certainly did not commit a foul in the lead-up).

We can win this title, but we have to collectivly get behind them, not question them. Every time you boo, you go on a phone in and question it adds ammunition to the tossers like Collymore, Gray etc who take great delight in adding to the pressure and critisising more.

Anyhow, pick my thread to pieces, have a go at me, tell me Im deluded and looking through Rafa tinted specs and you know what, I actually dont care in the slightest what a gang of WUM's think on internet forum.

What I do know is I am Liverpool Football Club through and through, think and thin, wind and rain-you know the words in OUR SONG, I have been a seaon ticket holder for 15 years and gone to matches for 20+ home and away, abroad more times than I can remember frendlies and all. I saw us 3-0 down at home to chesterfield...I believed, I saw us 3-0 down in istabul and I believed, I saw us snatch FA Cups from Arsenal and W Ham, and I saw us get through tragedies other clubs will never and have never had to endure. This is Liverpool Football Club, we are not like any other, we are privileged to be part of it. and you know what I dont care what anyone thinks, THIS IS MY TEAM and I WILL 'SUPPORT' it to the very end, and I WILL BELIEVE until its mathematically possible in the manager and the players that we CAN WIN IT THIS YEAR.

I feel bad for pissing on your chips after all the effort you put into that post, but you'll barely find 2 people on here who are saying they actually want Rafa sacked.

And yet again, i find some who decides that people who complain on here, must also be booing at the ground. Ludicrous.

[Reece]

Far fetched to beat Fulham, WHU, Stoke and Hull at Anfield?

Go and support everton mate, if that's your level of expectation.

I don't think that is what he meant (but I suspect you know that). Ignoring who we have dropped points against, If someone had of suggested at the beginning of the season that we would/could have been 9 points clear of chelsea/mancs by Christmas then people would have thought that far fetched.

[Craig_H]

I don't think that is what he meant (but I suspect you know that). Ignoring who we have dropped points against, If someone had of suggested at the beginning of the season that we would/could have been 9 points clear of chelsea/mancs by Christmas then people would have thought that far fetched.

Yeah but i'm not saying it at the start of the season.

[G]

We could well have been 9 ahead,we could also have easily been 8 behind.If Chelsea hadn't slipped up when we did recently than that would be the reality.Thats the thing people forget(ignore).

I'll take where we are thanks very much and hope we kick on from it.

[bipjohn]

I feel bad for pissing on your chips after all the effort you put into that post, but you'll barely find 2 people on here who are saying they actually want Rafa sacked..

That was just one out of many points. I think there are a lot though (in my opinion) who appear to be so pi55ed off with being top of the league and in the last 16 of the european cup they act like they want him gone.

And yet again, i find some who decides that people who complain on here, must also be booing at the ground. Ludicrous.

Where did I say that?

Tell you what though, those who complain on here/the web, Talkshyt and even City add to it. Some people arent as intelligent as you or I and cant make their own minds up for themselves, they listen others (wrong) opinions, decide its the majority, and go with it.

Now, my chips are wet mate, but you only really picked 2 points out of a long post so I take it you agree with the rest?!?!?

[Craig_H]

That was just one out of many points. I think there are a lot though (in my opinion) who appear to be so pi55ed off with being top of the league and in the last 16 of the european cup they act like they want him gone.

I dont think they're pissed off with being top or in the last 16 of europe.

I think they've seen enough to convince them that Rafa's too cautious to win the Premier League. I wouldnt say i'm convinced of that myself, but i can see where they're coming from.

That aside, it's the ability to recognise forum hyperbole that enables me to realise they dont want the manager sacked. In some cases, a few of the 'usual suspects' have categorically said they dont want him sacked, so that makes it fairly conclusive.

Where did I say that?

Tell you what though, those who complain on here/the web, Talkshyt and even City add to it.

You said:

"We can win this title, but we have to collectivly get behind them, not question them. Every time you boo, you go on a phone in and question it adds ammunition to the tossers like Collymore, Gray etc who take great delight in adding to the pressure and critisising more."

That implies to me that you think people complain or vent frustrations on here, then head off to the game and boo, followed by a quick call to 606 and slate the manager. I very much doubt that's true.

What do those who complain on here add to?

Some people arent as intelligent as you or I and cant make their own minds up for themselves, they listen others (wrong) opinions, decide its the majority, and go with it.

Dont take offence at this mate, i liked your post regardless of how much i agreed or disagreed with, so i dont want this taken as an insult, but i find it a bit arrogant sometimes when people assume that posters on here just hear a majority view and decide to just go with it. Most of the people on here who are known for complaining a lot have their own minds, as far as i can see and just say what they think, not because others have said it.

I could argue that those who see everything positively all the time and always find excuses for the poor results, are just following the 'positive crowd' and dont have a mind of their own. But i dont think that's the case, i think they just express how they see things, and it happens to be positive. It's not because they're jumping on any bandwagon, majority or otherwise.

Now, my chips are wet mate, but you only really picked 2 points out of a long post so I take it you agree with the rest?!?!?

I agree with some of it, disagree with some of it, and found some of it, whilst true, and a little cliche-ridden and a little meaningless in the context of the current climate and debate.

I always enjoy reading things that people have put thought into and you obviously put thought into it, so even though i dont agree with all you said, i enjoyed reading it.

[rudedog]

I find myself being driven mad at this point looking at this and many other forums and seeing what they have decended into.

Listening to kn0bs calling in to phone in's wanting Rafa out, Rafa this Rafa that.

Has anyone come up with a viable, avaliable, realistic alternative to one of European Footballs most successful managers over the last 5 years?

Please.....tell me, who do you all think could replace him?

Curbishley?

I find myself appaled at 'Supporters' audible booing at Liverpool players, and yes this has also happened in the past, We have had a scapegoat in every team, Kevin MacDonald, Ray Houghton to an extent, Don Hutchison, Danny Murphy, Harry Kewell and now Lucas. Some of them you could argue have been justified, others not. But you know what, not one of those and the many others got better by being booed.

The 'supporters' (yes, in inverted commers) on here who are moaning and moaning, you know who you are, did you watch us in the 90's? Did you watch Kozma? Did you watch Stewart, Dicks, Ruddock, Collymore, who didnt give a toss about the Red shirt? Did you watch Piechnik, Tanner, Hooper, Kvarme, Jimmy Carter; who simply werent good enough?

Nobody has the same opinion, thats what its all about.
Babel to some should start more, some say he shouldnt
Keane, to me personally should do his talking by playing football when he is on instead of constantly gesturing and moaning.
Riera, some think hes good others think hes crap.

I really belive that we have 4, possibly 5 world class players on our team right now. We have potentially 3 or 4 others who can be good enough on their day.

The point Im trying to make is that you cant please everyone. Rafa has the benefit of seeing players for 5 or 6 days a week, wathicng them train seeing there attitude on the training pitch and making his decisions from that, nobody here has that.

I know we have dropped too many points at home, and yes, we might regret it, but when did the last team, and I include Liverpool great 70s and 80s sides every win 38/38 games or 42/42 as it was then? When did that happen? Can anyone quote the season?

Its a 100% given fact, we have no divine right to win every game, neither will we. The other undeniable fact is that we are top, and whilst our failings have been at home, others have failed in other areas. Its down to very fine margins, poor refereeing against Stoke, unlucky against West Ham (I know Bellamy could have scored, but we dominated) unlucky against Hull (Brown complained about our goal-I say he was lucky for the OG because JC certainly did not commit a foul in the lead-up).

We can win this title, but we have to collectivly get behind them, not question them. Every time you boo, you go on a phone in and question it adds ammunition to the tossers like Collymore, Gray etc who take great delight in adding to the pressure and critisising more.

Anyhow, pick my thread to pieces, have a go at me, tell me Im deluded and looking through Rafa tinted specs and you know what, I actually dont care in the slightest what a gang of WUM's think on internet forum.

What I do know is I am Liverpool Football Club through and through, think and thin, wind and rain-you know the words in OUR SONG, I have been a seaon ticket holder for 15 years and gone to matches for 20+ home and away, abroad more times than I can remember frendlies and all. I saw us 3-0 down at home to chesterfield...I believed, I saw us 3-0 down in istabul and I believed, I saw us snatch FA Cups from Arsenal and W Ham, and I saw us get through tragedies other clubs will never and have never had to endure. This is Liverpool Football Club, we are not like any other, we are privileged to be part of it. and you know what I dont care what anyone thinks, THIS IS MY TEAM and I WILL 'SUPPORT' it to the very end, and I WILL BELIEVE until its mathematically possible in the manager and the players that we CAN WIN IT THIS YEAR.

Good post mate - don't let the negative 'supporters' drag you down too much though.

I hope you haven't been put off by the few negative posters on this site - they seem to have a 'scorched earth' policy on their opions though which probably makes it seem like theres more of them than there actually is.

[Shaggy]

Great post bipjohn.

I work with a Red who is an ex-journalist. He was chief reporter at the MEN for a while, covering Shipman, Commonwealth Games, Iraq war, before going on to cover Bolton games. He's an intelligent and articulate bloke. Anyway, I expected him - don't ask me why - to be quite realistic and even insightful when it came to LFC. But he's not, and always whinges about everything.

The other day he said we should be nine points clear and that Rafa is hanging on to his job by a thread, and the Mancs in our office laughed at him. They said they reckon they should be at least two points clear, given all the stupid points they've dropped thus far. The point is everyone concerned is thinking the same thing. I expect Chelsea fans also think they should be about nine points clear.

I'm thankful we're going into Christmas a point clear at the top. I can't remember the last time this happened. Yes, I rue those ****ing draws at home, and the loss at Spurs, like everyone else but we're in this race big time and there's no reason why we can't go on and win it.

[Sarb]

I find myself being driven mad at this point looking at this and many other forums and seeing what they have decended into.

Listening to kn0bs calling in to phone in's wanting Rafa out, Rafa this Rafa that.

Has anyone come up with a viable, avaliable, realistic alternative to one of European Footballs most successful managers over the last 5 years?They don't have to be available. Rafa wasn't 'available' when he came to us. Alternatives, Hiddink, Mourinho, Rijkaard

Please.....tell me, who do you all think could replace him?

Curbishley?

I find myself appaled at 'Supporters' audible booing at Liverpool players, and yes this has also happened in the past, We have had a scapegoat in every team, Kevin MacDonald, Ray Houghton to an extent, Don Hutchison, Danny Murphy, Harry Kewell and now Lucas. Some of them you could argue have been justified, others not. But you know what, not one of those and the many others got better by being booed. On the same note, we cheered players and chanted their names even though they were pants and made little effort at times....eg Heskey

The 'supporters' (yes, in inverted commers) on here who are moaning and moaning, you know who you are, did you watch us in the 90's? Did you watch Kozma? Did you watch Stewart, Dicks, Ruddock, Collymore, who didnt give a toss about the Red shirt? Did you watch Piechnik, Tanner, Hooper, Kvarme, Jimmy Carter; who simply werent good enough? Watched them all mate. We had some right tripe in the team. But do you know what, they didn't win the League either and neither has this team.

Nobody has the same opinion, thats what its all about.
Babel to some should start more, some say he shouldnt
Keane, to me personally should do his talking by playing football when he is on instead of constantly gesturing and moaning. Agreed
Riera, some think hes good others think hes crap.I was a bit worried when we signed him, but he started off well but now seems to be playing too narrow which has conincided with our dip in form

I really belive that we have 4, possibly 5 world class players on our team right now. We have potentially 3 or 4 others who can be good enough on their day. Agreed

The point Im trying to make is that you cant please everyone. Rafa has the benefit of seeing players for 5 or 6 days a week, wathicng them train seeing there attitude on the training pitch and making his decisions from that, nobody here has that.Agreed. But there is no excuse for defensive tactics at Anfield against mid-table teams or bizarre substitutions...something which he has been plagued by since he's been here

I know we have dropped too many points at home, and yes, we might regret it, but when did the last team, and I include Liverpool great 70s and 80s sides every win 38/38 games or 42/42 as it was then? When did that happen? Can anyone quote the season?You're right. It happens. By stating it, it isn't necesarilly moaning, it's just being disappointed

Its a 100% given fact, we have no divine right to win every game, neither will we. The other undeniable fact is that we are top, and whilst our failings have been at home, others have failed in other areas. Its down to very fine margins, poor refereeing against Stoke, unlucky against West Ham (I know Bellamy could have scored, but we dominated) unlucky against Hull (Brown complained about our goal-I say he was lucky for the OG because JC certainly did not commit a foul in the lead-up).

We can win this title, but we have to collectivly get behind them, not question them. Every time you boo, you go on a phone in and question it adds ammunition to the tossers like Collymore, Gray etc who take great delight in adding to the pressure and critisising more.

Anyhow, pick my thread to pieces, have a go at me, tell me Im deluded and looking through Rafa tinted specs and you know what, I actually dont care in the slightest what a gang of WUM's think on internet forum. Wouldn't do that mate.

What I do know is I am Liverpool Football Club through and through, think and thin, wind and rain-you know the words in OUR SONG, I have been a seaon ticket holder for 15 years and gone to matches for 20+ home and away, abroad more times than I can remember frendlies and all. I saw us 3-0 down at home to chesterfield...I believed, I saw us 3-0 down in istabul and I believed, I saw us snatch FA Cups from Arsenal and W Ham, and I saw us get through tragedies other clubs will never and have never had to endure. This is Liverpool Football Club, we are not like any other, we are privileged to be part of it. and you know what I dont care what anyone thinks, THIS IS MY TEAM and I WILL 'SUPPORT' it to the very end, and I WILL BELIEVE until its mathematically possible in the manager and the players that we CAN WIN IT THIS YEAR.

Fair play to you mate. A good post.

[Kloppster]

simply put and simply superb bipjohn,

well done, being top of the league really is just not good enough anymore :-)

YNWA

[Sarb]

simply put and simply superb bipjohn,

well done, being top of the league really is just not good enough anymore :-)

YNWA

Just don't get these comments. Makes me wonder who really ruins threads in this place, because most of the time it's sarcastic comments like these made by those backing the manager in numerous threads

Why don't you just appreciate the guy's post rather than adding the comment at the end?

It is good to be top of the league, but it could have and should have been a lot better. Ain't a negative slant, it's just being a fan who wants us to win the title but just wishes things had been a little better

[The_weatherman]

Great post bipjohn.

I work with a Red who is an ex-journalist. He was chief reporter at the MEN for a while, covering Shipman, Commonwealth Games, Iraq war, before going on to cover Bolton games. He's an intelligent and articulate bloke. Anyway, I expected him - don't ask me why - to be quite realistic and even insightful when it came to LFC. But he's not, and always whinges about everything.

The other day he said we should be nine points clear and that Rafa is hanging on to his job by a thread, and the Mancs in our office laughed at him. They said they reckon they should be at least two points clear, given all the stupid points they've dropped thus far. The point is everyone concerned is thinking the same thing. I expect Chelsea fans also think they should be about nine points clear.

I'm thankful we're going into Christmas a point clear at the top. I can't remember the last time this happened. Yes, I rue those ****ing draws at home, and the loss at Spurs, like everyone else but we're in this race big time and there's no reason why we can't go on and win it.

If we hadn't lost those points people are crying over we'd have a full house, full houses don't happen in november/december, the expectations are hugely unrealistic not to mention in a very difficult league.

[Shaggy]

It is good to be top of the league, but it could have and should have been a lot better. Ain't a negative slant, it's just being a fan who wants us to win the title but just wishes things had been a little better

But everyone thinks it could have and should have been a lot better! You can just say "well we should've won all those games", while dismissing the fact that Chelsea and United should also have 'won all those games'. They too should be on a greater number of points than they are. But they're not! And nor are we! So stop worrying about it - we're top of the league and not 14 points behind! Okay we're not champions yet and I'm not celebrating anything but it's a ****ing start - isn't it?!