Post Match - Bitters FA Cup

[dww]

dww

yeah I thought mascher was excellent today, maybe a game or two out here and there has refreshed him a little, he admitted himself that the lack of break in the summer due to the olympics etc has affected him but he was class yesterday

Suprised what you say about skrtel - he looked dodgy last monday in the league game, maybe a little bit of the pace but I thought he played well yesterday- to me he looked like he was first to every single ball and had a bit more composure, tho this could be down to the way everton played as they didn't hassle anywhere near like they did in the league.

I think I may have seemed more critical than I really wanted to re: Skrtel. I just thought that on one or two occasions he made mistakes that against a team with forwards on the pitch might have been punished. He also seemed too reactive when the ball was in the air. In the tackle he was very strong and at times he bought the ball into midfield well.

[Elvoz]

dww

yeah I thought mascher was excellent today, maybe a game or two out here and there has refreshed him a little, he admitted himself that the lack of break in the summer due to the olympics etc has affected him but he was class yesterday

Suprised what you say about skrtel - he looked dodgy last monday in the league game, maybe a little bit of the pace but I thought he played well yesterday- to me he looked like he was first to every single ball and had a bit more composure, tho this could be down to the way everton played as they didn't hassle anywhere near like they did in the league.

Anyway this has been our problem for a number of years, that when teams sit back we struggle to break them down. But as u say so have united at times, i have watched them 3 or 4 times in 1-0 wins this season and they have been as 'poor' as us at time with their attacking and knicked a 1-0 win. We have to remember that we have not had a fully fit torres which is a massive blow and our other attacking options just have not worked - on paper youd be expecting Babel, Keane, Kuyt to cause any team problems but for whatever reasons it just has not happened - that's life, i think some fans expect them all to be robots and perforf faultlessly every week.

Anyway - i was dissapointed with the draw as we dominated the game but it was good atmosphere and a btter performance than on monday in the league and i think, if you swap babel/dossena with aurelio/reira then we are somewhere close to our best set up imo

Would also like to act like a bitter child for a minute here and mention our neighbours - god they make me laugh.

They celebrated the draw last night like they had won the cup! - i could understand their celebrations in the league game, a late equaliser can feel like a win but ****ing hell boys - you got played of the park and on another day might have lost 3-0! - so they then say "well we should celebrate cause are team costs less than torres on his own" - change the ****ing record - jesus wept they change their agendas to suit their arguement - they complain when we call them a bitter small club and then in the very next sentance argue that a draw at anfield for them is as good as win, cause they are a small club - or at least their fans unknowingly have a small club mentality.

As always - leaving the match, i put on radio city and listen to the fones ins - you ge some right belters on there (both red and blue) - but especially the everton fans make me laugh - a few weeks ago they were slagging off moyes, slagging off the players, the attitudes, the running of the club etc etc - two draws at anfield later and this guy calls up and says pretty much the followin

"Alright boys -i just want to say, that i am so proud of our boys, we don't have the resources but moyes is the best manager in the league for what he has achieved. There are two players at everton that don't get the credit they derserve cause they don't score goals and they are not flashy players - but they are two of the best in the league. Those players are Tony Hibbert and Phil Neville and they epitomise everything about Everton Football club!!!!"

at which point everyone in the car said....."YEAH THEY DO, THEY'RE ****E!!!"

honestly ??

i thought he was very average and has been lately
and that bit of waving the imaginary card when he went down from cahill was shameful

[PTP]

honestly ??

i thought he was very average and has been lately
and that bit of waving the imaginary card when he went down from cahill was shameful

yeah i thought he played well - he ran non stop, he tried to get the ball moving forward his passing was better than it has been of late and he gave the midfield a bit of grit and bite - he made three or four excellent sliding tackles, which in a derby game gets the atmosphere/crowd going better than anything but a goal - the last ditch tackle he made when iirc dossena played a lazy/poor backwards pass and everton looked to counter was unreal - a superb challenge - plus with him on the pitch it allowed others to push on more

with ref the card waving etc - well at the ground i didn't see it and don't think anyone did - to us he had just won the ball with a good challenge and then it looked like a cynical trip by cahill in real time and most people were up of their seats shouting "u dirty blue nose ****" hahahahah - but yeah to be fair, having said incident it's not what u want!

[RedReet]

dww

yeah I thought mascher was excellent today, maybe a game or two out here and there has refreshed him a little, he admitted himself that the lack of break in the summer due to the olympics etc has affected him but he was class yesterday

Suprised what you say about skrtel - he looked dodgy last monday in the league game, maybe a little bit of the pace but I thought he played well yesterday- to me he looked like he was first to every single ball and had a bit more composure, tho this could be down to the way everton played as they didn't hassle anywhere near like they did in the league.

Anyway this has been our problem for a number of years, that when teams sit back we struggle to break them down. But as u say so have united at times, i have watched them 3 or 4 times in 1-0 wins this season and they have been as 'poor' as us at time with their attacking and knicked a 1-0 win. We have to remember that we have not had a fully fit torres which is a massive blow and our other attacking options just have not worked - on paper youd be expecting Babel, Keane, Kuyt to cause any team problems but for whatever reasons it just has not happened - that's life, i think some fans expect them all to be robots and perforf faultlessly every week.

Anyway - i was dissapointed with the draw as we dominated the game but it was good atmosphere and a btter performance than on monday in the league and i think, if you swap babel/dossena with aurelio/reira then we are somewhere close to our best set up imo

Would also like to act like a bitter child for a minute here and mention our neighbours - god they make me laugh.

They celebrated the draw last night like they had won the cup! - i could understand their celebrations in the league game, a late equaliser can feel like a win but ****ing hell boys - you got played of the park and on another day might have lost 3-0! - so they then say "well we should celebrate cause are team costs less than torres on his own" - change the ****ing record - jesus wept they change their agendas to suit their arguement - they complain when we call them a bitter small club and then in the very next sentance argue that a draw at anfield for them is as good as win, cause they are a small club - or at least their fans unknowingly have a small club mentality.

As always - leaving the match, i put on radio city and listen to the fones ins - you ge some right belters on there (both red and blue) - but especially the everton fans make me laugh - a few weeks ago they were slagging off moyes, slagging off the players, the attitudes, the running of the club etc etc - two draws at anfield later and this guy calls up and says pretty much the followin

"Alright boys -i just want to say, that i am so proud of our boys, we don't have the resources but moyes is the best manager in the league for what he has achieved. There are two players at everton that don't get the credit they derserve cause they don't score goals and they are not flashy players - but they are two of the best in the league. Those players are Tony Hibbert and Phil Neville and they epitomise everything about Everton Football club!!!!"

at which point everyone in the car said....."YEAH THEY DO, THEY'RE ****E!!!"

Basically summed up what I thought.

[tommyg]

On the case......

Edit - how's that?

Cheers!

[MrMichael]

Are those quotes from actual posts people have made?

There's definitely no place for that.

The first one is and there's been enough like it too, the second, well, I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see exactly that on here one of these days. Some of what we remove from this board, week on week, is simply wrong, and it has to stop being seen as acceptable in tone by everyone. Perhaps if it is also, those who have "unpopular" opinions but take the trouble to express them properly would get less pigeon-holed by the rest as a result.

[MrsB]

How else can you say that you dont think a player is good enough then?

Or shouldnt we be allowed to? Because if we're not, that's nonsensical.

Of course you should be allowed to as long as you don't insult the players. There's a difference between "Kuyt missed another sitter, he's not good enough!" and "Kuyt is a yellow-haired ****head!"

I also think that we have players who aren't playing well enough btw. But I don't slag them off and make them the scapegoat when we don't win because I think I can't really blame them if they gave everything. It's not their fault that they aren't better players.

[saveferris]

After watching the performance yesterday and a few more recently I feel that Kuyt would be perfect for away games, but not for games where we need to make the running. He continues to defend and cover the right side very well, however he has not been so potent in attack lately, but has the potential to do so. I think people's frustration lie in the fact he doesnt get rotated so often. For example if Gerrard plays on the right and Keane is tried in the middle behind Torres I think this could be a more effective attacking unit.

Although Everton's back 4 played well yesterday we needed to get round the back to have a chance and our wingers yesterday didnt do that. Babel has the pace and Kuyt wasnt getting past Baines that often.

We needed to play slightly wider in order to mix things up and felt a more direct dribbling right winger could have paid dividends. Everton did very well in both games not to concede free kicks in very dangerous areas, but they didnt have many people running at them either.

I thought Dossena showed some promise yesterday, a little heavy with some of his crossing but he was getting in the right areas to get them in, I also thought Arbeloa had a decent game too.

[Craig_H]

Of course you should be allowed to as long as you don't insult the players. There's a difference between "Kuyt missed another sitter, he's not good enough!" and "Kuyt is a yellow-haired ****head!"

I also think that we have players who aren't playing well enough btw. But I don't slag them off and make them the scapegoat when we don't win because I think I can't really blame them if they gave everything. It's not their fault that they aren't better players.

I fully agree with the abuse thing, there's no place for that.

But if a player misses a sitter for example, whether it's because they're not better players or otherwise, it's fair enough to blame them.

Personally, if someone misses an easy chance, as a supporter, i think it's fair to expect even an average Championship player to put away a sitter.

You say that it's not their fault that they arent better, but most of our players were bought at huge expense and whilst that's not their own doing, they have to be of some kind of standard for us to have paid such fees.

What's the difference between you acknowledging that the players arent good enough, and me for example, saying they're playing poorly and it's not acceptable?

Forget the abuse angle, because we agree totally on that. But where do you draw the line between what you did in acknowledging that they're not playing well enough and what i do?

I thought Dossena showed some promise yesterday, a little heavy with some of his crossing but he was getting in the right areas to get them in, I also thought Arbeloa had a decent game too.

Call me hyper critical if you want, but i think the fact that Dossena had next to nothing to do defensively, contributes to his 'better' performance. When he's asked to defend, he invariably gets it wrong and his distribution is woeful. The one thing i DO rate him for, his crossing, was also off the mark.

If we could offload him before the window closed and get £5m for him, i'd be totally overjoyed.

[DannyMan2006]

Call me hyper critical if you want, but i think the fact that Dossena had next to nothing to do defensively, contributes to his 'better' performance. When he's asked to defend, he invariably gets it wrong and his distribution is woeful. The one thing i DO rate him for, his crossing, was also off the mark.

If we could offload him before the window closed and get £5m for him, i'd be totally overjoyed.

I think Dossena can improve, but Insua has shown he is capable of stepping up so IMO we may as well sell. Had Insua not been good enough I would be of a different opinion as I still feel he could make the grade and has shown a gradual improvement. But if we can make £5m at no disadvantage to the team we should be looking to sell.

And I agree, his crossing was woeful v Everton.

[MrMichael]

I fully agree with the abuse thing, there's no place for that.

But if a player misses a sitter for example, whether it's because they're not better players or otherwise, it's fair enough to blame them.

Personally, if someone misses an easy chance, as a supporter, i think it's fair to expect even an average Championship player to put away a sitter.

You say that it's not their fault that they arent better, but most of our players were bought at huge expense and whilst that's not their own doing, they have to be of some kind of standard for us to have paid such fees.

What's the difference between you acknowledging that the players arent good enough, and me for example, saying they're playing poorly and it's not acceptable?

Forget the abuse angle, because we agree totally on that. But where do you draw the line between what you did in acknowledging that they're not playing well enough and what i do?

That's just different ways of expressing an opinion, and is what leads to debate on a forum. No problem there imo

Call me hyper critical if you want, but i think the fact that Dossena had next to nothing to do defensively, contributes to his 'better' performance. When he's asked to defend, he invariably gets it wrong and his distribution is woeful. The one thing i DO rate him for, his crossing, was also off the mark.

If we could offload him before the window closed and get £5m for him, i'd be totally overjoyed.

I agree. He was certainly willing to get forward but wasn't tested defensively at all, and his crossing was woeful. That's an even bigger problem as Arbeloa, who has been excellent this season, is not a good crosser of the ball either, and nor are Babel or Kuyt particularly.

[MrsB]

I have no problem with the way you express your opinion, Craig, it's fine. I just think that e.g. when a striker misses sitter after sitter and doesn't improve and still gets picked game after game that the manager is more to blame than the player. That's just my personal opinion though and it would be very boring on here if everyone shared it.

[Craig_H]

I have no problem with the way you express your opinion, Craig, it's fine. I just think that e.g. when a striker misses sitter after sitter and doesn't improve and still gets picked game after game that the manager is more to blame than the player. That's just my personal opinion though and it would be very boring on here if everyone shared it.

Oh i'd agree with that MrsB, the player isnt going to ask to be dropped, after all.

I dont personally see the problem with blaming a player for missing a sitter, or making a poor mistake - they're all of a certain level that the manager should feel fairly safe in picking them and thinking he can expect a certain level of performance.

As you say though, each to their own. I've no problem with your views either.

[Craig_H]

I agree. He was certainly willing to get forward but wasn't tested defensively at all, and his crossing was woeful. That's an even bigger problem as Arbeloa, who has been excellent this season, is not a good crosser of the ball either, and nor are Babel or Kuyt particularly.

I actually think that when he has time and space, without immediate pressure, Kuyt's shown himself to be a very good crosser. One thing the lad doesnt lack is intelligence and he knows where to put the ball into the box. The problems happen when he's under pressure, because he's neither strong, quick or skillful enough to deliver when he's under pressure.

[breffniboy]

I admire how some people can stay positive but I just can't see any light after the way we've been playing.

It's gone from "Stop moaning we're still top by 5" to "Stop monaing we're still one point ahead" to "stop moaning we're level" and now it's "stop moaning we're still second."

Our slide down the table has been inexorable and obvious along with the loss of any semblance of attacking verve and incisiveness; that for me means no league and by mid March it could be "stop moaning we're still in the CL spots!" The harsh reality is that our position of strength was built on the foundations of United's weaknesses, we've let them off the hook totally and I can't see much way back unless a switch dramatically flips somewhere and frankly, that's just fantasy thinking.

This game just fully underlined our difficulties. Any pub team that can run about a bit just have to pack their defence at Anfield and the draw, or more if they get lucky, is theirs. Simple as. Everton defended well but take away their 5-5-0 formation and you'll get their true measure. It's up to us to circumvent it and, as is the sad case for almost seven or eight years, we just don't have it in the locker. Are we doing anything about it? Doesn't look like it. Will we win the league? Will we bollocks.

We're a cup side and will remain so.

On the Kuyt issue, we all know he's not good enough. His next port of call will be somewhere like Newcastle or Bolton for about 5million and it'd be a good deal for us at that price. The most annoying thing is his lack of accountability for shoddy performances with Rafa, once again showing our manager's over-investment in quiet and obedient workhorses with good scientific stamina stats on the computer, at the expense of skill.

That all said, we'll beat Everton at Goodison when they have to actually try and play something different than their patented brand of crude anti-football. They celebrate backs to the wall draws at Anfield like they've won the World Cup, and then tell us they're not a small club.