What now for Parry...and Rafa?

[Baldemort]

Its depressing. We are a fukin laughing stock. The owners are a joke. They attend games rarely, and when they do they sit apart. They cant decide between them what to do with the club and how to sell it or who to. They only now seem to have decided that rafa quite rightly should decide who he buys with his funds and not parry the clown. The bull**** promises about the stadium etc.

and then we get to parry, rafa and keane. How pathetically embarrassing. Its pretty much clear to anyone with any sense that keane ended up being a pawn in the game. Only a fool would believe that parry simply went out and decided to buy keane without consulting rafa first. Thats ridiculous. Rafa obviously had a few players on his hit list and keane was one of them, but it would appear that he was clearly second on the list behind barry. It would appear that rafa was happy to offload alonso in the hope of using the funds raised in addition to the cash provided by the board to purchase both barry and keane. Alonso's deal didnt happen and so we were left with a choice of barry or keane and it seems as though parry and the board went over rafa and bought keane. That was ridiculous. Parry and the owners are to blame. But rafa is hardly in the clear. Its obvious that he rated keane as a player and wanted him with us. But as very good a manager rafa is, he is also a stubborn man. Overly stubborn. Crouch went months without scoring and deadly dirk has hardly set the world alight with his scoring record, yet rafa continued to play them and stuck by them. Yet keane, although he struggled for form, was never given anywhere near the same level of support. Even when he did score he would be dropped. He was often taken off early when he did start. Purely because rafa wanted to show parry who was boss. And it has worked. He has got his way. In a way, i am glad as i think rafa should never have been overruled by parry and rafa should have the final say in transfers, within reason. But the way rafa has gone about it leaves a sour taste in my mouth. We wasted keane while he was here and now have lost millions in the process and are also a striker down. God help us if nando should get injured. Well done to all you, the yanks, parry and rafa. What a sorry state of affairs.

[memzey]

I hear what you're saying but I must admit it still amazes me when people talk of how Keane wasn't given a fair crack of the whip. He played plenty of games, had loads of minutes on the pitch and was by and large awful. That's the main reason why he has been offloaded. Perhaps Rafa has used the situation to underline his point with the owners and Parry but its not like he made Keane play **** is it?

IMHO If he'd scored more goals, displayed a good work ethic and mentality, not flapped his arms around and huffed when he got subbed off and generally looked a Liverpool class player, Rafa would have kept hold of him irrespective of his political issues with Parry.

Not good enough. that's the reason he's gone.

[Baldemort]

Its true that he was hardly setting the world alight with his performances, but its grossly unfair to say that to keane when inferior players such as crouch and dirk were given lord knows how much patience. Dirk still is. How many managers would really give up on a £20mill signing after only a few months? I dont think rafa ever would have if keane had been his first choice. I can see why he has done it, and maybe in the long run we will benefit from it as parry has now been put in his place, but you have to wonder whether there was an easier way. We now look like idiots and have lost millions and a striker in the process at the business end of the season without getting him replaced.

[red g]

Its true that he was hardly setting the world alight with his performances, but its grossly unfair to say that to keane when inferior players such as crouch and dirk were given lord knows how much patience. Dirk still is. How many managers would really give up on a £20mill signing after only a few months? I dont think rafa ever would have if keane had been his first choice. I can see why he has done it, and maybe in the long run we will benefit from it as parry has now been put in his place, but you have to wonder whether there was an easier way. We now look like idiots and have lost millions and a striker in the process at the business end of the season without getting him replaced.

or maybe he feels we can win the title this year and by selling robbie we are in a stronger postion?

[memzey]

Inferior players like Dirk and Crouch? In you opinion maybe mate, but I'd rather have either of those than the RK we have seen in the past 6 months. It would be interesting to see how others feel on that point as well, but its a game of opinions and you're entitled to yours

As for losing money on him and looking silly: We have to see how the deal pans out, but I'd be surprised if we took a major tanking on his sale. I've read somewhere that it is down to signing on fees and agents comission, which will still add up, but not nearly as bad as the papers are painting it out to be. The real point is not about selling him. It's about timing. Would we have got as much for him in the summer? I think not. Would his contribution between now and the summer be worth the reduction in transfer fee (say £8m)? Pure conjecture and only time will tell I guess, but IMHO seeing as he has been a passenger in most of his games so far I really doubt it. Even those saying we'll be screwed if Torres gets injured are missing the crucial point that he is not a replacement for FT and has been very, very poor when deployed in that way to date.

It's a shame it didn't work out for him, and I'd feel better if we had a replacement lined up but, IMHO getting shot of him was in the best interests of LFC.

[BG1973]

without raising an old arguement on here.......if it wasn't for parry we wouldn't have alonso right now. we'd have that ****ebag barry. the thought of that is more frightening!!!

not by a long shot is that more frightening.

I want a manager who has a budget and can spend it how he sees fit. he watches the players in training, he knows what fits into his system, therefore he should chose the targets and offer what he sees fit within his budget.

Parry refusing to pay the asking price for Barry was him telling Rafa he knows better. What a joke that is.

[Scratch]

I'd agree, in no way has Kuyt been inferior to Keane. Apart from his contribution on the pitch as a right winger, he also has a work ethic that puts Keane in the shade, and a never say die attitude to the cause. If Keane had shown have the urgency of Kuyt (and maybe a strikers instinct in front of goal) he'd still be here now, and we'd be in a better position all round. Rafa didn't let Keane down, Keane let Keane down.

[BG1973]

I don't think so. I think that the battle for control is over the fact that he saw Keane as being pointless on his own. He had an idea of selling Alonso, buying Barry to play on the left, buying Keane to play behind Torres, and moving Gerrard alongside Mascher. So you sell one top class player to bring two in that will improve the balance of the squad.

If you don't sign Barry though (and sell Alonso to raise the necessary cash) then there's no point buying Keane. He went through Parry, giving him a list of targets as instructed, and Parry did 1/3 of the job and wasted 20m, that Rafa would have spent elsewhere if he'd known that Barry wasn't coming and Alonso wasn't going.

It's not about having total control, it's about the manager making the decisions about who comes and goes within a budget, rather than giving someone who has no idea about the balance of a squad, and the tactics the manager has in mind, complete control over buying and selling from a shortlist. Rafa's new deal will still involve him approving all purchases through the board, it will just give him a more hands on role, so that he doesn't end up with square pegs to fit into round holes if all the deals don't go as planned.

Keane wasn't sold because Rafa wants to prove a petty point. He was sold because in our best system of play it comes down to a choice between him and Gerrard, and there's only one winner. Also because he's not performed when he's been given his chance in any case. He'd never play on his own up front, so it's not as if he was ever really a back up for Torres anyway. The only way his going will impact on us is if we have two or three injuries amongst our attacking players, including Torres, or if he scores the winner against us on the last day of the season.

But why would you chose to weaken your squad when you are in a title race? Unless you have another agenda?

[Baldemort]

Inferior players like Dirk and Crouch? In you opinion maybe mate, but I'd rather have either of those than the RK we have seen in the past 6 months. It would be interesting to see how others feel on that point as well, but its a game of opinions and you're entitled to yours

As for losing money on him and looking silly: We have to see how the deal pans out, but I'd be surprised if we took a major tanking on his sale. I've read somewhere that it is down to signing on fees and agents comission, which will still add up, but not nearly as bad as the papers are painting it out to be. The real point is not about selling him. It's about timing. Would we have got as much for him in the summer? I think not. Would his contribution between now and the summer be worth the reduction in transfer fee (say £8m)? Pure conjecture and only time will tell I guess, but IMHO seeing as he has been a passenger in most of his games so far I really doubt it. Even those saying we'll be screwed if Torres gets injured are missing the crucial point that he is not a replacement for FT and has been very, very poor when deployed in that way to date.

It's a shame it didn't work out for him, and I'd feel better if we had a replacement lined up but, IMHO getting shot of him was in the best interests of LFC.

Dont get me wrong mate, i rate crouch and was sad to see him go, but look at keane's record over the last few years. Its very good. As for dirk, he's average at best. But opinions aside, how can you compare their time here when the other two had relentless support and patience whereas keane was constantly dropped or subbed? Again, look at crouch's record and see how long we stuck by him before he scored at all. Keane had none of that. He wasnt great, i'll be the first to admit that, some of his missed sitters were cringeworthy, but he didnt really get a fair crack of the whip, certainly not to the same degree as crouch or dirk.

[memzey]

I can compare them not because of the things that were the same (i.e. difficulty scoring to start their LFC careers off with), rather the things that were starkly different.

Things like attitude where Dirk and Crouch allways put a shift in and never sulked, Robbie flapped, huffed and puffed his way through games, often berating his team mates and still playing poorly himself. Things like game intelligence, where even when their touch or finishing let them down, Dirk and Crouch would set others up or improve the overall quality of the teams' play. Something Robbie was expected to bring in spades but rarely if ever showed. Things like work rate, where in one game we played earlier on this season in the first half Kuyt touched the ball something like 30+ times but Keane only 6 or so (can't remember which one it was but they were both playing up front that game). With contributions like that, he should not be surprised he's getting taken off after 65 minutes. If he'd done or offerred the other things Kuyt and Crouch (amongst others) offer when they are not playing well, he'd have given himself a better chance. At the end of the day, he just wasn't up to it.

I say again: I feel a bit sorry for him, but he was not good enough. I'm glad we got rid and managed to recoupe most of our money (if that is indeed the case), and don't feel his absence will meaningfully weaken us for the rest of the season, although I would have liked to bring another attacker in as well.

[Joe King]

[DannyMan2006]

Eh?

[Joe King]

He'd do a much better job than Parry.

[DannyMan2006]

He'd do a much better job than Parry.

Fair do's.

[Baldemort]

I can compare them not because of the things that were the same (i.e. difficulty scoring to start their LFC careers off with), rather the things that were starkly different.

Things like attitude where Dirk and Crouch allways put a shift in and never sulked, Robbie flapped, huffed and puffed his way through games, often berating his team mates and still playing poorly himself. Things like game intelligence, where even when their touch or finishing let them down, Dirk and Crouch would set others up or improve the overall quality of the teams' play. Something Robbie was expected to bring in spades but rarely if ever showed. Things like work rate, where in one game we played earlier on this season in the first half Kuyt touched the ball something like 30+ times but Keane only 6 or so (can't remember which one it was but they were both playing up front that game). With contributions like that, he should not be surprised he's getting taken off after 65 minutes. If he'd done or offerred the other things Kuyt and Crouch (amongst others) offer when they are not playing well, he'd have given himself a better chance. At the end of the day, he just wasn't up to it.

I say again: I feel a bit sorry for him, but he was not good enough. I'm glad we got rid and managed to recoupe most of our money (if that is indeed the case), and don't feel his absence will meaningfully weaken us for the rest of the season, although I would have liked to bring another attacker in as well.

So Rafa should give up on a proven Prem striker after half a season of not even playing every game? Hell, i've even heard Rafa say before that player sometimes take time to bed in. Keane was taken off during most games and not given the same chance others like Crouch and Dirk have been. Crouch was bought for one reason - to score goals. He didn't score for ages but was shown patience and support, whereas Robbie wa shown the door. Which is exactly what Dirk should have been shown a long time ago. Don't get me wrong, i'm no fan of Keane and didn't want him here in the first place. Look at Dossena. That man has been utter ****e. Is there anybody crazy enough out there to admit that Dossena has done a better job than Keane? Come on. Yet Dossena is still here and Rafa has stated clearly that he is going nowhere. Keane has been pushed out for political reasons. I'm glad Rafa is now in charge of transfers as opposed to the idiot that is Parry, but i'm frankly embarrassed about the way the whole thing has been conducted. It's a joke.