Sack the bored (article about Rafa)

[BG1973]

I agree he was the right man for the job at the time. Just as Houllier was the right man for the job back in 1998/9.

However, to progress we now need to find the next 'right man'. Hopefully the next one will be able to break the jinx because the current one has peaked, just like Houllier had.

As for money spent I think there was a massive net spend comparison on a manure site and the figures did not look good (for us). Although we've spent slightly less its not great.

peaked? On the evidence of this season we're progressing, hopefully even more so next season. Have you looked inside a crystal ball or something?

And we've spent slightly less overhauling the whole squad, not adding a few 30 million pound jewells here and there. Big difference.

[Vermilion]

Ferguson was absolutely slaughtered in his first few years, by fans and media alike. It's not about being a ****e manager, i dont think anyone is accusing Rafa of being one. That's quite sensationalistic of you

The issue is that if and when Rafa wins the league, he has the biggest arguing tool going, and whatever anyone says about him, he can pull that one out of the bag.

Until then though, the media are perfectly entitled to question his ability to win the Premier League, which is clearly the objective of any manager at one of England's elite four clubs.

Eh, i never said Rafa had been called ****, i said that going years without winning the league doesn't make a manger ****, that's the point.

I know Ferguscum was slated, and those slating him were proved wrong, it's about improvement not how long imo, that's the point i'm making.

And as i say not winning the Prem does not give the media the right to question his ability imo, his ability should only be questioned on the progress made regarding the task at hand, not whether he's won it YET or not.

[Woobus]

Rafa doesnt pander to the English Media enough and prefers to leak stories to Spanish reporters.
Fergi has had decades of buttering up the media with juicy leaked stories when it suited him. Same as Wenger he had a tough time at the start (even after he won the league) but seems to have built up more friends in the media.
I really cant see Rafa changing and doubt he cares a bit what some arsehole of a reporter writes about him.

[Craig_H]

Eh, i never said Rafa had been called ****, i said that going years without winning the league doesn't make a manger ****, that's the point.

You asked whether having a lean spell makes a manager **** (words to that effect), so if you know nobody's calling rafa ****, i'm not sure why you brought up the 'doesnt make a manager ****' point.

I know Ferguscum was slated, and those slating him were proved wrong, it's about improvement not how long imo, that's the point i'm making.

Ok, and if you believe Rafa's the one, then those slating him will be proved wrong too. Cant you just satisfy yourself with that fact and feel happy that, ultimately, they'll be made to look silly?

And as i say not winning the Prem does not give the media the right to question his ability imo, his ability should only be questioned on the progress made regarding the task at hand, not whether he's won it YET or not.

And that progress is open to interpretation. Some people's interpretation is that the progress is minimal and that he'll never reach the objective at hand. Let them think it.

[Craig_H]

Rafa doesnt pander to the English Media enough and prefers to leak stories to Spanish reporters.
Fergi has had decades of buttering up the media with juicy leaked stories when it suited him. Same as Wenger he had a tough time at the start (even after he won the league) but seems to have built up more friends in the media.
I really cant see Rafa changing and doubt he cares a bit what some arsehole of a reporter writes about him.

Genuine question here - do you honestly not feel that winning 11 PL titles has made Ferguson virtually beyond being questioned?

Do you honestly not see a correlation between the notion that someone who has proved himself successful during a 22 year stint doesnt have his ability questioned?

I dont think it's anything to do with 'feeding' the media, Ferguson has run-in after run-in with the media - banning the BBC, the falling out with Sky and Geoff Shreeves etc. He's a loudmouth and he falls out with the media regularly. The thing which saves him from a media onslaught is the fact that he's won ELEVEN fecking league titles. Who in their right mind can ultimately question his record?

That's the point i'm trying to get at.

[Woobus]

Genuine question here - do you honestly not feel that winning 11 PL titles has made Ferguson virtually beyond being questioned?

Do you honestly not see a correlation between the notion that someone who has proved himself successful during a 22 year stint doesnt have his ability questioned?

I dont think it's anything to do with 'feeding' the media, Ferguson has run-in after run-in with the media - banning the BBC, the falling out with Sky and Geoff Shreeves etc. He's a loudmouth and he falls out with the media regularly. The thing which saves him from a media onslaught is the fact that he's won ELEVEN fecking league titles. Who in their right mind can ultimately question his record?

That's the point i'm trying to get at.

Well not really as Fergi has many enemies in the press who do question his choices and ability. What Fergi has what Rafa misses over here is a lot of friends in the press to even the crap out with glowing reports.
Do you really not think Fergi feeds friends in the press info when it is in Man Utd interest? Then do you not think those reporters would try to stay on his good side and only write positive things about him?
Rafa and Balague are a perfect example, you wont get Balague bad mouthing Rafa or leaking anything Rafa doesnt want him to.
I am not doubting Fergis success gives him more space than others, but his years of experience handling the press over here and his friends in the business are a big factor in it.

[BigChief]

peaked? On the evidence of this season we're progressing, hopefully even more so next season. Have you looked inside a crystal ball or something?

And we've spent slightly less overhauling the whole squad, not adding a few 30 million pound jewells here and there. Big difference.

I believe Rafa's tactics will hold him back even if he gets Arab money to spend. His spending on dubious squad players (Lucas, Babel) would have been better spent on a quality right mid a few seasons back. We really didn't need Lucas when we have Spearing/Plessis and certainly not Babel.

Couple that with his naturally defensive minded formation (the draw against a 10 men Arsenal is when my undying support for him waned) then I believe this season he has peaked.

[Craig_H]

Well not really as Fergi has many enemies in the press who do question his choices and ability. What Fergi has what Rafa misses over here is a lot of friends in the press to even the crap out with glowing reports.
Do you really not think Fergi feeds friends in the press info when it is in Man Utd interest? Then do you not think those reporters would try to stay on his good side and only write positive things about him?
Rafa and Balague are a perfect example, you wont get Balague bad mouthing Rafa or leaking anything Rafa doesnt want him to.
I am not doubting Fergis success gives him more space than others, but his years of experience handling the press over here and his friends in the business are a big factor in it.

I'd agree that the press thing does play a part, but not as much as some people seem to be suggesting. I think both issues are active in playing a part.

[Crazy-Horse]

The majority of the stick IS about his failure to win the league. Because that's the consequence of all the perceived mistakes added up.

.

Ahh... Good Theory

However, Aston Villa are a reasonably successful club from the past (7 Championships). They have haven't won anything since the earlier 80's, their manager has been with them for 3 years, and has taken them to a higher point than recent history, but actually hasn't won anything.

Are the tabloids/forums/talkback sessions and pundits screaming over evey decision, and team selection that Martin O'Neill makes????

I must have missed all the fuss

[Craig_H]

Ahh... Good Theory

However, Aston Villa are a reasonably successful club from the past (7 Championships). They have haven't won anything since the earlier 80's, their manager has been with them for 3 years, and has taken them to a higher point than recent history, but actually hasn't won anything.

Are the tabloids/forums/talkback sessions and pundits screaming over evey decision, and team selection that Martin O'Neill makes????

I must have missed all the fuss

I dont think Villa have spend nearly £200m, nor are they England's most successful club, or as big as Liverpool in any which way.

But if you want to compare us to Villa, feel free.

Just to clarify something though. People are going on as if i'm backing up the media's criticism aimed at Rafa, when i'm not. I'm just speculating or suggesting why they do it - that's not equivalent to justifying it.

[Tatterdemalion]

I have a good mentality no?

You are a good boy.

[Charly]

Surely the game against Portsmouth proved Rafa wrong, not right?

He had to bring the players he rested on to win the game, by the skin of his teeth. It was more down to luck that amazing tactical judgement.

If we had won the game without needing Torres or Kuyt, then Rafa would indeed have been proved correct.

That said, we did play a lot better, and were far more enjoyable to watch than in recent games.

The bottom line is, we do not have a single player outtside of Gerrard and Torres who is reliable in front of goal, and we cant afford to be without both if we can help it.

Kuyt is usually attrocious in front of goal. But he did pretty well, and perhaps coming off the bench helps in that hes not too knackered to kick the ball after running up and down the wing.

[Harv]

as i say lets see what happens come may





go **** yourself

[Mattshark]

I believe Rafa's tactics will hold him back even if he gets Arab money to spend. His spending on dubious squad players (Lucas, Babel) would have been better spent on a quality right mid a few seasons back. We really didn't need Lucas when we have Spearing/Plessis and certainly not Babel.

Couple that with his naturally defensive minded formation (the draw against a 10 men Arsenal is when my undying support for him waned) then I believe this season he has peaked.

But Lucas is far better than either Spearing or Plessis.

Babel is a prospect who has obvious talent who could develop into a very good player and had a good run last season as left sided attacker..

[Woobus]

Surely the game against Portsmouth proved Rafa wrong, not right?

He had to bring the players he rested on to win the game, by the skin of his teeth. It was more down to luck that amazing tactical judgement.

God people have a go at him when his subs dont make an impact and now you're having a go for his subs winning us the game.
Torres wouldnt have had all his energy for the final run in if played from the start. Was a great time to bring him on, and Rafa did the right thing.