Sack the bored (article about Rafa)

[dww]

Don’t agree at all. Why are expectations so high in the Press that he has to win the league? I can understand that with supporters who are desperate for it, but why are the press crucifying if he fails?

Press predict 3rd or 4th for us every year for obvious reasons, so why if Rafa doesn’t finish 1st is it so criminal? Surely progress every year under difficult circumstances is some sort of achievement, and although maybe shouldn’t be applauded, surely shouldn’t be under such scrutiny.

Because we are a historically big club with a huge and demanding fanbase. If you are a team competing regularly for the CL the next stage has to be to compete for the PL. Added to the fact that in the past we have won the league a lot.

It is to some degree a useful story for journos to have stored up as big team fail is a better headline than most. But it is still the standard that we as fans demand, surely?

Even if both to some degree could be accused of a lack of realism as we have not had the strongest team or the biggest resources in the division for a long while.

To tell you the truth I don’t really get were you’re coming from, and the Portsmouth comparison doesn’t really help. We won the game, but that still wasn’t good enough, so using your scale theory, winning the league still won’t be good enough. We’ll either have been too boring or the other teams handed it to us on a plate as the earlier reports were suggesting. It’s all well and good saying we won the league so Rafa was right, but what happens as soon as we hit the first bad patch next year, it would be a fluke and the same questions will be asked.

For some reason Rafa has a different criteria to meet with the Press and I’m sure it’s not just to win the league.

I can kind of see the point to a degree but I think the criticism would be reduced substantially.

I think it is also that he is not as universally media friendly as Mourinho and Wenger (in different ways) and there is an inherent xenophobia in the press about managers as far as I can see.

[RedReet]

Because we are a historically big club with a huge and demanding fanbase. If you are a team competing regularly for the CL the next stage has to be to compete for the PL. Added to the fact that in the past we have won the league a lot.

It is to some degree a useful story for journos to have stored up as big team fail is a better headline than most. But it is still the standard that we as fans demand, surely?

Even if both to some degree could be accused of a lack of realism as we have not had the strongest team or the biggest resources in the division for a long while.

But we are competing for the league (well this year anyway). Not only that, we’re second only to the best team in the world that are breaking all sorts of unimaginable defensive records, and above the two richest clubs in the world and well as the ‘best footballing team in Europe’

Don’t get me wrong, of course we deserve some bad press, but with such ferocity and bitterness, I don’t think so.

If come the end of the season we’ve dropped drastically then fine, we can expect no less. But during the season when we spent a good chunk top I’d expect a bit less pressure on the manager every time he doesn’t mastermind a 5-0 victory, especially if we’re in such a strong position.

I can kind of see the point to a degree but I think the criticism would be reduced substantially.

I think it is also that he is not as universally media friendly as Mourinho and Wenger (in different ways) and there is an inherent xenophobia in the press about managers as far as I can see.

I can’t really argue with that, most ex-pro’s and managers have the xenophobia bug as things were much better in the good ol’ days when there were no foreigners. The way he uses the Press to his advantage he also has to expect the odd backlash, but again I still think it’s way over the top.

[Craig_H]

Don’t agree at all. Why are expectations so high in the Press that he has to win the league? I can understand that with supporters who are desperate for it, but why are the press crucifying if he fails?

Press predict 3rd or 4th for us every year for obvious reasons, so why if Rafa doesn’t finish 1st is it so criminal? Surely progress every year under difficult circumstances is some sort of achievement, and although maybe shouldn’t be applauded, surely shouldn’t be under such scrutiny.

To tell you the truth I don’t really get were you’re coming from, and the Portsmouth comparison doesn’t really help. We won the game, but that still wasn’t good enough, so using your scale theory, winning the league still won’t be good enough. We’ll either have been too boring or the other teams handed it to us on a plate as the earlier reports were suggesting. It’s all well and good saying we won the league so Rafa was right, but what happens as soon as we hit the first bad patch next year, it would be a fluke and the same questions will be asked.

For some reason Rafa has a different criteria to meet with the Press and I’m sure it’s not just to win the league.

Because it's their job to be sensationalistic and scrutinising a manager who is perceived to be failing gives them the opportunity to ask controversial questions.

You dont agree, that's fine. But it's my answer to your question. You asked and i answered to the best of my viewpoint.

From where i'm sitting, it seems like the only answer you seem like you'll ever comprehend or accept is that the whole media and press have it in for Rafa and Liverpool FC. So fine, take that as your answer then, regardless of how inexplicable it is.

[Craig_H]

Because we are a historically big club with a huge and demanding fanbase. If you are a team competing regularly for the CL the next stage has to be to compete for the PL. Added to the fact that in the past we have won the league a lot.

It is to some degree a useful story for journos to have stored up as big team fail is a better headline than most. But it is still the standard that we as fans demand, surely?

Even if both to some degree could be accused of a lack of realism as we have not had the strongest team or the biggest resources in the division for a long while.



I can kind of see the point to a degree but I think the criticism would be reduced substantially.

I think it is also that he is not as universally media friendly as Mourinho and Wenger (in different ways) and there is an inherent xenophobia in the press about managers as far as I can see.

No no no, it can only be because every reporter in the media, (print and broadcasting) simply hates Liverpool, that's the only possible way to explain it.

[Craig_H]

But we are competing for the league (well this year anyway). Not only that, we’re second only to the best team in the world that are breaking all sorts of unimaginable defensive records, and above the two richest clubs in the world and well as the ‘best footballing team in Europe’

Don’t get me wrong, of course we deserve some bad press, but with such ferocity and bitterness, I don’t think so.

If come the end of the season we’ve dropped drastically then fine, we can expect no less. But during the season when we spent a good chunk top I’d expect a bit less pressure on the manager every time he doesn’t mastermind a 5-0 victory, especially if we’re in such a strong position.

So what do you put it down to then?

It feels like you're eliminating every other possible answer, other than the notion that the world is against us. You dont really believe that, do you?

[BigChief]

Selfish attitude. Think of Spur's, Chelsea and Arsenal.

I am a bit selfish because I prefer looking at teams above me, rather than below. That's probably where we've been kidding ourselves all these years.

[Elvoz]

I am a bit selfish because I prefer looking at teams above me, rather than below. That's probably where we've been kidding ourselves all these years.

on the money fella

[BigChief]

....
Think back to the days of not always qualifying for the CL under Houllier, getting spanked when we played a decent team in Europe and a fifth European title being a distant dream. The man's done a ****ing superb job, noone could have done better than him to this point in my opinion.

I agree he was the right man for the job at the time. Just as Houllier was the right man for the job back in 1998/9.

However, to progress we now need to find the next 'right man'. Hopefully the next one will be able to break the jinx because the current one has peaked, just like Houllier had.

As for money spent I think there was a massive net spend comparison on a manure site and the figures did not look good (for us). Although we've spent slightly less its not great.

[Vermilion]

Don’t agree at all. Why are expectations so high in the Press that he has to win the league? I can understand that with supporters who are desperate for it, but why are the press crucifying if he fails?

Press predict 3rd or 4th for us every year for obvious reasons, so why if Rafa doesn’t finish 1st is it so criminal? Surely progress every year under difficult circumstances is some sort of achievement, and although maybe shouldn’t be applauded, surely shouldn’t be under such scrutiny.

To tell you the truth I don’t really get were you’re coming from, and the Portsmouth comparison doesn’t really help. We won the game, but that still wasn’t good enough, so using your scale theory, winning the league still won’t be good enough. We’ll either have been too boring or the other teams handed it to us on a plate as the earlier reports were suggesting. It’s all well and good saying we won the league so Rafa was right, but what happens as soon as we hit the first bad patch next year, it would be a fluke and the same questions will be asked.

For some reason Rafa has a different criteria to meet with the Press and I’m sure it’s not just to win the league.

Bravo.

[RedReet]

So what do you put it down to then?

It feels like you're eliminating every other possible answer, other than the notion that the world is against us. You dont really believe that, do you?

Sorry, is it OK if I have a chance to get home from work?

Who’s the angry man now? Deep breaths, eh?

If you exclude the past month you’ll never find one post from me complaining about the media. In fact, the only ones you might find would be me telling people to wise up because they want to get Andy Gray sacked, killed, castrated, because may have showed slight favour towards another team.

My main gripe as I keep saying is not what the media think, but listening to supporters that take their words as Gospel. The simple argument with you is that you think the bad Press is because we haven’t won the league, I said I don’t, I think there is more to it. What that is, I don’t know, neither do you. I went on to make other points of no relevance to your point (maybe I should have started a different post) but you brought it back to this league issue that neither of us can prove. What do you want me to do here?

And don’t be so patronising to keep presuming you know what I think.

[Woobus]

As for money spent I think there was a massive net spend comparison on a manure site and the figures did not look good (for us). Although we've spent slightly less its not great.

I could make up figures as well to show that United spent a lot more than we have in the last five years. No one knows what each team has spent apart from people at the FA due to the different amounts quoted in the papers for undisclosed fees.
Did you not find it suspicious and maybe not totally accurate towards us when you found it on a manc site?

[Craig_H]

Sorry, is it OK if I have a chance to get home from work?

Who’s the angry man now? Deep breaths, eh?

If you exclude the past month you’ll never find one post from me complaining about the media. In fact, the only ones you might find would be me telling people to wise up because they want to get Andy Gray sacked, killed, castrated, because may have showed slight favour towards another team.

My main gripe as I keep saying is not what the media think, but listening to supporters that take their words as Gospel. The simple argument with you is that you think the bad Press is because we haven’t won the league, I said I don’t, I think there is more to it. What that is, I don’t know, neither do you. I went on to make other points of no relevance to your point (maybe I should have started a different post) but you brought it back to this league issue that neither of us can prove. What do you want me to do here?

And don’t be so patronising to keep presuming you know what I think.

I'm not angry at all, i found it quite funny, but the smiley is often ill-received depending on who uses it.

I agree on the fans thing, but i dont really say much about it because those who are slightly clued up dont let a pundit tell them what to think and those who do are a lost cause either way.

[Vermilion]

I don't see what not having won the league has to do with whether Rafa is a good, great or brilliant manager, and it certainly doesn't entitle the media to question his ability, Scumface never won the league for 7yrs...did that mean he was a ****e manager?

[Craig_H]

I don't see what not having won the league has to do with whether Rafa is a good, great or brilliant manager, and it certainly doesn't entitle the media to question his ability, Scumface never won the league for 7yrs...did that mean he was a ****e manager?

Ferguson was absolutely slaughtered in his first few years, by fans and media alike. It's not about being a ****e manager, i dont think anyone is accusing Rafa of being one. That's quite sensationalistic of you

The issue is that if and when Rafa wins the league, he has the biggest arguing tool going, and whatever anyone says about him, he can pull that one out of the bag.

Until then though, the media are perfectly entitled to question his ability to win the Premier League, which is clearly the objective of any manager at one of England's elite four clubs.

[RedReet]

I could make up figures as well to show that United spent a lot more than we have in the last five years. No one knows what each team has spent apart from people at the FA due to the different amounts quoted in the papers for undisclosed fees.
Did you not find it suspicious and maybe not totally accurate towards us when you found it on a manc site?

Yup, I'm sure the FA are informed of all the fees and money transactions that are involved during a transfer.