1st team transfers since 2007

[Guest]

How can it cloud my judgment when all rationality points against you 'unbiased' people?

I'm a proponent of rationality, and there is no case against Rafa whatsoever. All members of the anti-Rafa brigade are just grasping at thin air.

This is all done tongue in cheek Syd.

Right, that's it, I have a proposal......

* Anyone that uses the phrase "rcdnw" in an argument automatically loses the debate. If they do it twice, they get a week in the sinbin.

* Anyone that uses the phrase "anti-Rafa brigade" however, gets exactly the same.

Both are completely nonsensical. Its about bloody time people on here started accepting shades of grey rather than everything being black and white (its like a bloody Geordie forum at times, lol) - there's perfectly valid viewpoints imo both in remaining in support of Rafa, and questioning his leadership.

We haven't been performing well enough on the pitch for the last few months, even putting results aside we too often look a bit clueless in attack and our football does not even come close to being what it should be at times, hence people who want the best for the club are pretty disillusioned. However, the alternative view that says Rafa is still the right man for the job, has returned us to our rightful place in Europe at least, and with proper support from the club etc is still as likely if not more so than anyone else to bring us no.19, also has pretty good grounding.

Ultimately, we all want the best, and the most success possible, for Liverpool FC, if we disagree on how to get that fine, its just about specifics, and perfectly natural, but people better damn well stop lumping everyone in under those 2 utterly meaningless and artificial groupings before I get really pissed off and do some really crazy things with the word filter!!!

Hey ho, you should have looked at my white text before judging.

Syd is a great poster as he's one of the only few who's got a bit of a brain in discussing all things LFC here.

All of our frailties since Rafa's been here have been well documented and I don't dispute that. I don't need to refute all of Syd's arguments each time he has one in here and it's one of the few I've replied to lately because I thought it was something we've already debated to death.

It's all good voicing our concerns but at the end of the day I am there to support the manager and the team even though he can infuriate me at times. I don't like seeing idiots being rash in here just because we've just lost a match or that we've 'blown up' our title chances lately. We're still in it for the long haul because we've all got this club into our blood.

It was never my intention to wind up Syd, as my white text can reveal. Maybe I should have used the instead of letting him judge by himself.

Oh Michael, you just had a hissy fit.

[MrMichael]

Hey ho, you should have looked at my white text before judging.

Syd is a great poster as he's one of the only few who's got a bit of a brain in discussing all things LFC here.

All of our frailties since Rafa's been here have been well documented and I don't dispute that. I don't need to refute all of Syd's arguments each time he has one in here and it's one of the few I've replied to lately because I thought it was something we've already debated to death.

It's all good voicing our concerns but at the end of the day I am there to support the manager and the team even though he can infuriate me at times. I don't like seeing idiots being rash in here just because we've just lost a match or that we've 'blown up' our title chances lately. We're still in it for the long haul because we've all got this club into our blood.

It was never my intention to wind up Syd, as my white text can reveal. Maybe I should have used the instead of letting him judge by himself.

Oh Michael, you just had a hissy fit.

You added that white text AFTER I quoted you, don't forget I can see a post's edit history!

I know mate, and your stance is often applaudable (if at times a bit bloody minded), its just those "rcdnw" and "anti-rafa brigade" things have been pissing me off for a long time, its impossibly reductive and I'm determined to stop it by whatever means necessary (including CHEESE CHEESE CHEESE measures if I have to), your post was just a catalyst.

Hissy fit? Ah well, everyone else is allowed them, why not me? Right that's it, I've had enough, mods, delete my account I'm out of here....... oh

[Guest]

You added that white text AFTER I quoted you, don't forget I can see a post's edit history!

I know mate, and your stance is often applaudable (if at times a bit bloody minded), its just those "rcdnw" and "anti-rafa brigade" things have been pissing me off for a long time, its impossibly reductive and I'm determined to stop it by whatever means necessary (including CHEESE CHEESE CHEESE measures if I have to), your post was just a catalyst.

Hissy fit? Ah well, everyone else is allowed them, why not me? Right that's it, I've had enough, mods, delete my account I'm out of here....... oh

Don't commit suicide please.

[MrMichael]

Ok, I'll try not to.... thank you for caring Fredo

[EwarWoo]

Right, that's it, I have a proposal......

* Anyone that uses the phrase "rcdnw" in an argument automatically loses the debate. If they do it twice, they get a week in the sinbin.

That'll sort out the bladdy anti-rafa brigade once and for all

* Anyone that uses the phrase "anti-Rafa brigade" however, gets exactly the same.

Doh!

Yes I am just kidding and no I'm not going to put this in white text just in case

[Vermilion]

The most worrying stat is that if you take out Torres and Keane that is just 45 million for 13 players who have beyond a shadow of a doubt made our squad a lot stronger - ****in genius that Rafa tbf.

[Neil Young]

Yeah but unlike people like yourself, i dont let my bias cloud my judgement.

Oh yeah?

Syd is a great poster as he's one of the only few who's got a bit of a brain in discussing all things LFC here.

Oh yeah?

[rudedog]

Ok, well this is quite a subjective discussion being had here imo, and I personally think you're just slightly over-egging things in one direction. In some cases it is not necessarily fair to make a success/failure judgement yet, and in others the level of risk taken is well worth noting. However, there is no doubt in my mind that last summer was verging on the disasterous in transfer terms, so myself I think it makes more sense to break them down into specific seasons, and when you do that things look a little different....

<SNIP>

Excellent post MrMichael, I started a reply which was very similar this morning but gave up as it was taking me too long

Thanks for putting this together and doing it much more eloquently and sensibly than I every could have

[Imy]

As far as i can see, we've signed 15 players (at a cost of £95m) for the 1st team squad in the last 2 years:

Arbeloa £2.5m
Babel £11m
Benayoun £6m
Degen Free
Dossena £8m
Itandje Free
Keane £20m
Leto £2.5m
Lucas £6.5m
N'gog £1.5m
Plessis Free
Riera £11m
Skrtel £6m
Torres £20m
Voronin Free

Of that 15, how many have been an unquestionable success?

I make it 4 (in bold) and Benayoun might be being generous.

Does that add weight to the 'quantity over quality' criticism or not?

Worrying ratio, given the money spent?

From the list above i reckon we could have got away without signing the:

Degen Free
Dossena £8m
Itandje Free
Leto £2.5m
Lucas £6.5m
N'gog £1.5m
Plessis Free
Voronin Free

= £18m (or one WORLD class player)
Most of the above hardly play and bringing through the likes of Insua and Nemeth would have been much more beneficial in the long run.

I did not include Keane as we still need another £20m bracket attacking player.

[Guest]

Oh yeah?


Oh yeah?

Yeah, really yeah yeah.

[Craig_H]

From the list above i reckon we could have got away without signing the:

Degen Free
Dossena £8m
Itandje Free
Leto £2.5m
Lucas £6.5m
N'gog £1.5m
Plessis Free
Voronin Free

= £18m (or one WORLD class player)
Most of the above hardly play and bringing through the likes of Insua and Nemeth would have been much more beneficial in the long run.

I did not include Keane as we still need another £20m bracket attacking player.

Wouldnt argue with that. If we had never signed Degen, Dossena, Itandje, Leto, Lucas, N'gog, Plessis and Voronin, it wouldnt really have made much of a difference. The £18m player we could've bought, probably would've done.

[JudgeRed]

Wouldnt argue with that. If we had never signed Degen, Dossena, Itandje, Leto, Lucas, N'gog, Plessis and Voronin, it wouldnt really have made much of a difference. The £18m player we could've bought, probably would've done.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing

[Craig_H]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing

It's not really hindsight. If you'd asked me prior to signing them, i could've told you that a bunch of players that hadnt set the world alight or even played much top level football, wouldnt make as much of an impact as a top class established footballer.

As could most people.

[The Birdman]

From the list above i reckon we could have got away without signing the:

Degen Free
Dossena £8m
Itandje Free
Leto £2.5m
Lucas £6.5m
N'gog £1.5m
Plessis Free
Voronin Free

= £18m (or one WORLD class player)
Most of the above hardly play and bringing through the likes of Insua and Nemeth would have been much more beneficial in the long run.

I did not include Keane as we still need another £20m bracket attacking player.

So putting aside hindsight you'd have left us with 1 right back in Arbeloa and Carra as cover??
You wouldn't have signed Itay's first choice left back leaving us with the brittle Aurelio and Insua (who no-one really knew would come through like he has) oh and Carra and Arbeloa as cover (again)
Intandje cost nothing and we needed a back up keeper, yes he was ****e but who else are we going to play in goal if Reina gor injured, Arbeloa or Carra I guess.
Leto fair enough, but he was left sided (they are at a premium) and played with Insua at youth levels (I think) also was head and shoulders above everyone in the reserve games he played.
Lucas again fair enough but 6.5m for the youngest ever winner of the brazilian footballer of the year award and the U21 captain. Lets not pretend Jay Spearing could play because he isn't anywhere near up to it.
N'Gog is quick and has the frame to be very powerful, again I'll semi agree that it wasn't essential we signed him but I can understand why we did, he has PL and CL goals in his 1st season.
Plessis cost nothing and has already played a few games even though he is still young.
Voronin was never as bad as people on here made out, up to his injury he was contrbuting - responsible for 7 of the 8 goals in the CL game and as a 4th striker a regular international.

So my question is with your 18m to buy a world class player would you have chosen a RB and left us short in all the other areas?? would you have signed a striker then moaned when we had full back injuries and Carra throws his toys out refusing to play there??
Would you have signed a 29 year old with no resale value.

Anyway you look at it the squad would have been thread bare thin in areas, even the freebies are either established internationals or young players better than their counterparts in the youth and reserve set ups

[Craig_H]

So putting aside hindsight you'd have left us with 1 right back in Arbeloa and Carra as cover??

Maybe he'd have kept Finnan or promoted Darby.

You wouldn't have signed Itay's first choice left back leaving us with the brittle Aurelio and Insua (who no-one really knew would come through like he has) oh and Carra and Arbeloa as cover (again)

Would we have been worse off??

Leto fair enough, but he was left sided (they are at a premium) and played with Insua at youth levels (I think) also was head and shoulders above everyone in the reserve games he played.

He's done nothing. Would we have noticed if we hadnt signed him?

Lucas again fair enough but 6.5m for the youngest ever winner of the brazilian footballer of the year award and the U21 captain. Lets not pretend Jay Spearing could play because he isn't anywhere near up to it.

Spearing couldnt have done any worse. Again, would anyone notice if Lucas suddenly disappeared off the planet?

N'Gog is quick and has the frame to be very powerful, again I'll semi agree that it wasn't essential we signed him but I can understand why we did, he has PL and CL goals in his 1st season.

I like N'gog and to be fair, £1.5m signings dont touch the sides.

Plessis cost nothing and has already played a few games even though he is still young.

Likewise with freebies.

Voronin was never as bad as people on here made out, up to his injury he was contrbuting - responsible for 7 of the 8 goals in the CL game and as a 4th striker a regular international.

Ditto.

So my question is with your 18m to buy a world class player would you have chosen a RB and left us short in all the other areas??

would you have signed a striker then moaned when we had full back injuries and Carra throws his toys out refusing to play there??

Might've still had Finnan or used Darby.

Would you have signed a 29 year old with no resale value.

?

Anyway you look at it the squad would have been thread bare thin in areas, even the freebies are either established internationals or young players better than their counterparts in the youth and reserve set ups

As i said, take away the likes of Lucas and Dossena, the expensive ones i mean, and would we bat an eyelid? I dont think so.