Fantastic Balance

[ronanm]

I genuinely believe we are the best team in Europe, with the second best team being Man Utd. The English league is in the ascendancy at the moment -the Italian league is nothing, and we demolished the 2nd team in Spain. Although it kills me, I will watch the CL final next week knowing that if the Scum had the same qualifying rounds we had they wouldn't be there - yet, I know life isn't always fair, so they will probably (90% certain) win.

I think the balance of the current first XI is so much better than it has been since the 80's - solid defence, great midfield, and solid forward line. Our midfield can p1ss all over ManUres equivalent in any season - we have (and should always) bully the Scum midield with the players we have (even with Hargreaves @ 18m, Carrick @ 15m = 2 * joke).

BUT - IMO the only place we're lacking compared to the Scum is the attacking threats. We have SG, Torres, and Dirk Kuyt - and, to a lesser extent (owing to late selection preference), Benayoun. They have Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez, Berbatov.

Rooney I would liken to Kuyt - tracks back, scores goals - marginal difference. Berbatov is like Benayoun - a provider but not a regular - Berbatov slight edge. Ronaldo (an incredible poacher no matter where he plays ) is like a hybrid of SG (brilliant) and Torres (remarkable). Tevez is like a Kuyt - but more skillful and quite a bit more creative (IMO). So that's 4 Scummers being similar to 4 of us, but more effective unfortunately (Berbatov vs. Stoke for example, or the expectation that the Scum will score AND score again when behind, compared to the hope that the 'Pool will score to equalize).

So, to cut a long story short, what do we need from an attacking perspective???

IMO (apologies for the repetition), Tevez could be the solution for us winning the league. 20 years is a miscarriage.

[Craig_H]

Unfortunately, claims of being the best side in europe need to be backed up by winning things.

[EwarWoo]

Depends on your definition of best.

1 off match - I'd agree, us.

Competition needing a squad and consistency - it's a cliche but the table never lies.

As much as I don't think it would happen Tevez would be fantastic, he can do an OK job covering for both Torres and Gerrard when one of 'ems out.

I don't think we really need a RW anymore. Kuyt and Benny have both stepped it up far beyond what seemed possible a year ago.

LW, well, if Riera isn't playing not sure how good a cover Dossena is. I think this is a weak area.

RB, could probably do with cover here too. Considering how key he is and how many games he plays I think it's a bit too much expecting Carra to cover the role. It's not his natural position and it tires him too much.

But yeah, cover for Torres / Gerrard most definitely the most important. We don't have anyone who can cover Torres even vaguely satisfactorily and Benny although able to come in and cover Gerrard still isn't good enough to fill those boots.

[LiousRed]

Unfortunately, claims of being the best side in europe need to be backed up by winning things.

I would rather be the non-best team with the trophies than the best team without them

[Guest]

Unfortunately, claims of being the best side in europe need to be backed up by winning things.

Our first 11 is better than them, arguably. They've got much more depth in their squad which on the course of a whole season takes it toll. Still, apart from a couple of games we should have won, we would have won the league.

It's a game of fine margins. It's scary to think that we could have won this league with 2 or 3 games to spare. But yes, with IF's we can make out a new world.

[Craig_H]

Our first 11 is better than them, arguably. They've got much more depth in their squad which on the course of a whole season takes it toll. Still, apart from a couple of games we should have won, we would have won the league.

It's a game of fine margins. It's scary to think that we could have won this league with 2 or 3 games to spare. But yes, with IF's we can make out a new world.

I'm not sure if our first choice is better than their's. If both are at their best, i think their's is better, to be honest. For example, Ronaldo has had a mixed season, and scored 25 goals. Kuyt's had his best, and scored 15.

You're right about small margins, that's what separates champions from also-rans. Every team can point to a few incidents in a season and say 'what if...'

We're as close as we've been for 2 decades, mind.

[Craig_H]

Depends on your definition of best.

1 off match - I'd agree, us.

Competition needing a squad and consistency - it's a cliche but the table never lies.

As much as I don't think it would happen Tevez would be fantastic, he can do an OK job covering for both Torres and Gerrard when one of 'ems out.

I don't think we really need a RW anymore. Kuyt and Benny have both stepped it up far beyond what seemed possible a year ago.

LW, well, if Riera isn't playing not sure how good a cover Dossena is. I think this is a weak area.

RB, could probably do with cover here too. Considering how key he is and how many games he plays I think it's a bit too much expecting Carra to cover the role. It's not his natural position and it tires him too much.

But yeah, cover for Torres / Gerrard most definitely the most important. We don't have anyone who can cover Torres even vaguely satisfactorily and Benny although able to come in and cover Gerrard still isn't good enough to fill those boots.

It's consistency that determines who's the best. If it was down to one-off matches, Boro could make a claim that they're better than us - but one look at the table tells you what a farcical claim that would be.

[Rowan]

I'm not sure if our first choice is better than their's. If both are at their best, i think their's is better, to be honest. For example, Ronaldo has had a mixed season, and scored 25 goals. Kuyt's had his best, and scored 15.

You're right about small margins, that's what separates champions from also-rans. Every team can point to a few incidents in a season and say 'what if...'

We're as close as we've been for 2 decades, mind.

I remember Fulham under Sanchez used to claim that if all games finished at half time they would be top of the league but at the time they were bottom. I suppose thats an extreme way of saying I agree with you.

We've closed the gap but at the end of the day the gap is still there. Personally I think everything that Rafa has been saying about the lack of games that Torres and Gerrard have played together has been right. The difference between us and them is that if one of the horrors that plays upfront for them isn't about they have an equally horrible replacement on the bench capable of making a similar impact over a prolonged period. I don't think we have that and therefore when we need an edge to break teams down we have been somewhat lacking. That's what's lost us the league (well that and the Wigan and Everton games).

[Woobus]

For example, Ronaldo has had a mixed season, and scored 25 goals. Kuyt's had his best, and scored 15.

Lol you could just as easy use Gerrard vs Berb which would show we are stronger. I am not sure they are better than us when at the best but they definitely are better than us when they arent at their best. They can still nick wins 1-0 by boring the pants of other teams while we ended up with draws by letting in sloppy goals.

[Craig_H]

Lol you could just as easy use Gerrard vs Berb which would show we are stronger. I am not sure they are better than us when at the best but they definitely are better than us when they arent at their best. They can still nick wins 1-0 by boring the pants of other teams while we ended up with draws by letting in sloppy goals.

Berbatov's first season at a big club, not really a fair comparison.

[Woobus]

Berbatov's first season at a big club, not really a fair comparison.

Well then Rooney or Tevez it just seems a silly way to look at it comparing their best player to our 3rd best attacking player.

[red g]

we may be the best team, but teams dont win trophies squads and unfortunately ours isnt a patch on theres attacking wise, improve that and win the title i blieve its that simple

[Red_Polo]

Well then Rooney or Tevez it just seems a silly way to look at it comparing their best player to our 3rd best attacking player.

I agree, silly comparison.

Out first choice team is better IMO. It's not just about comparing players either, we're more than the sum of our parts.

[Ben_Itez]

we may be the best team, but teams dont win trophies squads and unfortunately ours isnt a patch on theres attacking wise, improve that and win the title i blieve its that simple

Well we've scored more goals than them in the league this year and have a better goal difference so the stats would seem to disagree with you.

I think this year they've probably had a better defence than us. The Vidic/Ferdinand axis is probably the best in the league. Didnt they set a record for the most 1-0's or something earlier in the season? The big difference is of course their options in the attacking areas - Rooney, Tevez, Ronaldo and Berbatov. When plan A doesnt work they can chuck one or two of those players on the pitch to change things. We struggle when Torres and Gerrard are out and sometimes when they're fit as we dont have too many options from the bench.

So in short, as we all probably know, they have a stronger squad but in terms of the first XI the two teams are very close and with our superior head to head record you could argue we are better than them, they would counter that by saying league table never lies, European Champions etc etc

[Rich]

We're forgetting experience - this was their third title in a row that'll will have been worth a point or two through the season.

What we've done for the first time in donkey's is to challenge to the end, which should help give the experience required next year to go one better.