Why 3rd favourites???

[Redspin]

think you need to be a bit more realistic with yours fella. that permanently injured van persie played 44 times for them last year and scored 20 goals.

Bendtner we can all agree on is ****, but i think Eduardo is a class player and arshavin has only played a dozen times for arsenal but oozes class and Walcott is young and raw, not convinced he wil make it as a top pro but we shall see.

Van Persie only only started 24 league games, so he wasn't in the starting line-up in more than one-third of their league games. Also, he scored only 11 League goals last season (and two of them were penalties) which was just one more than such average strikers as Cisse at Sunderland and Carlton Cole at West Ham. Even the likes of Kevin Davies at Bolton scored more league goals than Van Persie. Incidentally Van Persie only scored two more league goals than team-mate Bendtner, who you agree is ****. Not exactly evidence of his great striking credentials from where I'm standing

[red g]

Van Persie only only started 24 league games, so he wasn't in the starting line-up in more than one-third of their league games. Also, he scored only 11 League goals last season (and two of them were penalties) which was just one more than such average strikers as Cisse at Sunderland and Carlton Cole at West Ham. Even the likes of Kevin Davies at Bolton scored more league goals than Van Persie. Incidentally Van Persie only scored two more league goals than team-mate Bendtner, who you agree is ****. Not exactly evidence of his great striking credentials from where I'm standing

Kevin Davies played every game for Bolton last year and had his best ever season.

and, Van persie scored 11 goals from 24 starts, pretty good stats if you ask me.....and he got 11 assists to .......pretty good striking credentials from where i am standing, RVP is a fantastic player.
last season 44 games ( few as a sub ) 20 goals 15 assists.


Davies got 12 goals from 37 starts.

in fact if you are comparing carlton cole, cisse and Davies with RVP what hope is there for a decent conversation!!

[Lee]

Van Persie's a wide man who occasionally plays centrally, although when Adebayor was playing, that was his role. Mentioning Eduardo and Vela is like the Mancs pointing to the attacking prowess of such luminaries as Wellbeck and Macheda, or us crowing about Voronin for that matter

I see what you did there

[Shanks]

I think we'll win the league this season.

Great comment from the bored Doppelganger.

[dww]

Kevin Davies played every game for Bolton last year and had his best ever season.

and, Van persie scored 11 goals from 24 starts, pretty good stats if you ask me.....and he got 11 assists to .......pretty good striking credentials from where i am standing, RVP is a fantastic player.
last season 44 games ( few as a sub ) 20 goals 15 assists.


Davies got 12 goals from 37 starts.

in fact if you are comparing carlton cole, cisse and Davies with RVP what hope is there for a decent conversation!!

I'd take different tack to Redspin on this. The thing is that while RvP is clearly a good player what you got last season is what you would expect from him - i.e. excellent goal + assist per game ratio but not playing enough games to make him a first choice option for a team who want to win the title.

I think the general idea of his original post - that at the minute our goal scoring options are at least comparable with our rivals is pretty well accurate.

I'm not sure that Bendtner and Kalou are as bad as people make out. I have to say I don't particularly rate either but when you look back they both have had reasonably productive seasons of late. Obviously they are not top line players in the Ronaldo/Drogba/Torres bracket but they are valuable squad members for their respective clubs.

[red g]

I'd take different tack to Redspin on this. The thing is that while RvP is clearly a good player what you got last season is what you would expect from him - i.e. excellent goal + assist per game ratio but not playing enough games to make him a first choice option for a team who want to win the title.

I think the general idea of his original post - that at the minute our goal scoring options are at least comparable with our rivals is pretty well accurate.

I'm not sure that Bendtner and Kalou are as bad as people make out. I have to say I don't particularly rate either but when you look back they both have had reasonably productive seasons of late. Obviously they are not top line players in the Ronaldo/Drogba/Torres bracket but they are valuable squad members for their respective clubs.

As it stands i think

Chelsea have 3 players capable of 20+ goals a season

Lampard
Drogba
Anelka

Scum have 3

Berbatov
Owen ( not done it for 5 seasons!! )
Rooney

Arsenal have 2/3

Eduardo (Unproven but i am pretty sure)
RVP
Arshavin( maybe)

Liverpool have 2

Gerrard
Torres


The problem is with the exception of maybe Scum and Rooney this season, the others could do without any of the above for a period of time.......and we know we cannot.

[Redspin]

I'd say so. I'm certainly not the person who's in a minority of one, in this case.

You've already had your point about 'permanently injured' RvP shot down, havent you?

Being injured for more than a third of the season - after missing a lot of the previous two seasons through injury - hardly makes him not injury-prone. But, hey, you're the self-appointed know-all around here so why let a few facts get in the way of your opinion?

[Craig_H]

Being injured for more than a third of the season - after missing a lot of the previous two seasons through injury - hardly makes him not injury-prone. But, hey, you're the self-appointed know-all around here so why let a few facts get in the way of your opinion?

It hardly makes him 'permanently injured' either, does it?

[Redspin]

RVP plays for Arsenal as a striker. Eduardo will be their key man. If your suggesting he is like Wellbeck or Macheda then you dont have a clue

You're the one who brought up the likes of Kalou (6 league goals), Berbatov (9 league goals) and Walcott (2 league goals) as evidence of our rivals' superior attacking options, so I would suggest that your opinion of players' merits is not exactly flawless.

You also said that we'd be stuffed in Torres got injured, given that our rivals' attacking options are superior. This despite the fact that Liverpool - apart from easily being top scorers overall - were the only club with three players to have scored 12 or more league goals, in Gerrard, Torres and Kuyt (no other club had three players even scoring 10 or more league goals). Throw in Benayoun's 8 league goals and our top 4 scorers, as well as our top 3 scorers, easily outscored the top 4 scorers at Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal.

But you contend that, despite the facts, your opinion makes all this irrelevant and we're basically worse up front than all our rivals.

Takes all sorts I suppose, but I'd prefer to see what actually happened than reply on completely unfounded opinions based on nothing

[red g]

You're the one who brought up the likes of Kalou (6 league goals), Berbatov (9 league goals) and Walcott (2 league goals) as evidence of our rivals' superior attacking options, so I would suggest that your opinion of players' merits is not exactly flawless.

You also said that we'd be stuffed in Torres got injured, given that our rivals' attacking options are superior. This despite the fact that Liverpool - apart from easily being top scorers overall - were the only club with three players to have scored 12 or more league goals, in Gerrard, Torres and Kuyt (no other club had three players even scoring 10 or more league goals). Throw in Benayoun's 8 league goals and our top 4 scorers, as well as our top 3 scorers, easily outscored the top 4 scorers at Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal.

But you contend that, despite the facts, your opinion makes all this irrelevant and we're basically worse up front than all our rivals.

Takes all sorts I suppose, but I'd prefer to see what actually happened than reply on completely unfounded opinions based on nothing

throw as many stats as you want, but this is fact.....

Torres is injured, we play N'gog

Drogba is injured they play Anelka

Rooney is injured they play Berbatov

RVP is injured they play eduardo

If Torres is out for any length of time we will not win the league.

[dww]

As it stands i think

Chelsea have 3 players capable of 20+ goals a season

Lampard
Drogba
Anelka

Scum have 3

Berbatov
Owen ( not done it for 5 seasons!! )
Rooney

Arsenal have 2/3

Eduardo (Unproven but i am pretty sure)
RVP
Arshavin( maybe)

Liverpool have 2

Gerrard
Torres


The problem is with the exception of maybe Scum and Rooney this season, the others could do without any of the above for a period of time.......and we know we cannot.

I don't think Owen can. Eduardo has scored, what, 4, PL goals ever? Arshavin is questionable too and RvP probably won't play enough games to get to 20. I'm not saying that they aren't good players (well the Arsenal ones anyway ) just that I don't believe many people would bet on them to score 20+ goals this season.

I also think concentrating on just those who could score 20+ goals is misleading what for example I doubt Kuyt and Benayoun will do that but 10 goals a piece is not negligible and considered as a team/squad I think we compare well with the other teams. I do agree that to be confident of our chances this season we need another creative player and/or goal scorer but I would have similar doubts as a supporter of any of the other top 4 teams.

I'm not sure any of those teams could do without those players for a significant period and win the league to be honest. Arsenal's squad isn't good enough anywhere on the pitch to win the league this season.

I think what happens transfer-wise in the rest of preseason will probably determine who goes into the season as my favourites.

[Craig_H]

It's not that they 'would' score 20 goals, but they're capable. That's the point red g was making and redspin was ignoring.