THE Ryan Babel thread

[BFG]

O'Shea and Fletcher arent players who play in matchwinning areas or who make the difference between 1 point and 3.

And O'Shea/Park are backup players anyway, not first teamers.

I think every position is a match winning or losing one to be honest. It would be a very simplistic view of football to say "forwards score, wingers create, they're the match winning positions."

Lucas and Babel are mainly going to be squad players but the criticism they receive doesn't seem to allow for that from certain posters hence my (slightly childish) rant further up and Riera is a very good player who did pretty well last season imo.

[kingfunk]

It was a Brown own goal............

Sshhhh.

[Craig_H]

I think every position is a match winning or losing one to be honest. It would be a very simplistic view of football to say "forwards score, wingers create, they're the match winning positions."

Lucas and Babel are mainly going to be squad players but the criticism they receive doesn't seem to allow for that from certain posters hence my (slightly childish) rant further up.

It's not about 'fowards score, wingers create' etc.

It's quite simple though, the crux of a top side can easily be summed up with a good keeper, solid but unspectacular defence, a solid dependable but not flashy midfielder, and two or three attacking players to create and score goals.

You certainly dont need world class players in every position, but in our system, where we use 6 players to mainly defend and 4 attacking players, it's upto those four to win us most games. You need at least 3 of them to be top draw 'make the difference' type of players, who offer consistent and significant impact, if you want to win a title. Not every player needs to be a star, most of them only need to be capable of doing 'a job' for you. But there need to be a few top class players, which separate also-rans and champions.

Riera doesnt really fit that category.

[DannyMan2006]

You certainly dont need world class players in every position, but in our system, where we use 6 players to mainly defend and 4 attacking players, it's upto those four to win us most games. You need at least 3 of them to be top draw 'make the difference' type of players, who offer consistent and significant impact.

Riera doesnt really fit that category.

Nothing is set in stone Craig.

We had only one star player for half of last seasons games and nearly won the league. If we get our usual solid defence we will mount a challenge.

[Craig_H]

Nothing is set in stone Craig.

We had only one star player for half of last seasons games and nearly won the league. If we get our usual solid defence we will mount a challenge.

Nothing is set in stone, of course not.

It's not set in stone that if you play better than the opposition and create more, you'll win.

Generally speaking though, it's what happens.

We 'nearly' won the league. If we'd had one more world class 'difference' type of player, that could easily have made the difference. In fact, it backs up what i say doesnt it? That, realistically, you need 3 of them.

[BFG]

It's not about 'fowards score, wingers create' etc.

It's quite simple though, the crux of a top side can easily be summed up with a good keeper, solid but unspectacular defence, a solid dependable but not flashy midfielder, and two or three attacking players to create and score goals.

You certainly dont need world class players in every position, but in our system, where we use 6 players to mainly defend and 4 attacking players, it's upto those four to win us most games. You need at least 3 of them to be top draw 'make the difference' type of players, who offer consistent and significant impact, if you want to win a title. Not every player needs to be a star, most of them only need to be capable of doing 'a job' for you. But there need to be a few top class players, which separate also-rans and champions.

Riera doesnt really fit that category.

I don't agree with your analysis but I quite enjoyed reading it anyway.

I think Rafa wants everyone bar Pepe and the central defenders to attack in this team, 2 goals for Johnson and a miss on an open goal from Insua in the first three games are evidence of that. We now have fullbacks that can run past our wide midfielders which is something Rafa has wanted all along so having a solid winger who's good in posession to get the most out of a young, willing and athletic fullback is a positive. Riera provides balance and in a tactically strict team such as ours that can't be overestimated.

[DannyMan2006]

In fact, it backs up what i say doesnt it? That, realistically, you need 3 of them.

Or you need two to stay fit. Or you need decent back up to come in for your top players.

[Craig_H]

I don't agree with your analysis but I quite enjoyed reading it anyway.

I think Rafa wants everyone bar Pepe and the central defenders to attack in this team, 2 goals for Johnson and a miss on an open goal from Insua in the first three games are evidence of that. We now have fullbacks that can run past our wide midfielders which is something Rafa has wanted all along so having a solid winger who's good in posession to get the most out of a young, willing and athletic fullback is a positive. Riera provides balance and in a tactically strict team such as ours that can't be overestimated.

Having spent 5 years watching over cautiousness follow over cautiousness, i struggle to see how you conclude that Rafa favours an 'attacking' mentality.

But fair enough.

[Craig_H]

Or you need two to stay fit. Or you need decent back up to come in for your top players.

Well, it's always a big ask to select two players not to get injured all season.

Isnt the whole problem we've all identified, to do with the idea that if Gerrard and Torres arent playing (or dont do the business for us), we've rarely got anyone else to do it?

Hence, having a third would minimise the problem somewhat, no?

[BFG]

Having spent 5 years watching over cautiousness follow over cautiousness, i struggle to see how you conclude that Rafa favours an 'attacking' mentality.

But fair enough.

That's not what we saw toward the end of last season or the early part of this though. I see your point but I think it was more to do with Rafa being limited to this sort of style by the players we had. Now we have good attacking fullbacks, with Mascher there able to cover I expect to see the attacking football continue.

[Craig_H]

That's not what we saw toward the end of last season or the early part of this though. I see your point but I think it was more to do with Rafa being limited to this sort of style by the players we had. Now we have good attacking fullbacks, with Mascher there able to cover I expect to see the attacking football continue.

No it's not, but we only went attacking when we had no other choice. We'd left ourselves in a position where we needed to win every game. Little choice but to attack. That's not Rafa's natural mentality though. I cant take a 10 game stretch as being more powerful evidence than the other 4 and two third seasons.

It's a bit like a boxer who enters the eleventh or final round knowing he's well behind on points. What choice does he have, other than to go all out for that knockout punch?

If we'd adopted such a mentality from the off, we've have coasted the league.

It's evident in so many of our games. If we dont score early, we're often stuffed and we only 'go for it' when we go behind.

[RedReet]

I don't agree with your analysis but I quite enjoyed reading it anyway.

I think Rafa wants everyone bar Pepe and the central defenders to attack in this team, 2 goals for Johnson and a miss on an open goal from Insua in the first three games are evidence of that. We now have fullbacks that can run past our wide midfielders which is something Rafa has wanted all along so having a solid winger who's good in posession to get the most out of a young, willing and athletic fullback is a positive. Riera provides balance and in a tactically strict team such as ours that can't be overestimated.

Having spent 5 years watching over cautiousness follow over cautiousness, i struggle to see how you conclude that Rafa favours an 'attacking' mentality.

But fair enough.

Have people not realised that when in possession, we switch to a 3232 formation, or a 3241 this year depending on the circumstances.

Carra goes RB, Johnson RW and Kuyt either comes inside or joins Torres up front.

Just watch the last couple of games and see how we line up from goal kicks. Even check Carra’s passing statistics from the Guardian chalkboard. A good majority come from the middle third of the right hand side, ie where the full back would be.

[DannyMan2006]

Well, it's always a big ask to select two players not to get injured all season.

Isnt the whole problem we've all identified, to do with the idea that if Gerrard and Torres arent playing (or dont do the business for us), we've rarely got anyone else to do it?

Hence, having a third would minimise the problem somewhat, no?

But we wouldn't need a third star. Just someone who can do a job in reserve. We could have four star players, but if we have no one to come in for Torres then we aren't really going to win the league.

[Craig_H]

Have people not realised that when in possession, we switch to a 3232 formation, or a 3241 this year depending on the circumstances.

Carra goes RB, Johnson RW and Kuyt either comes inside or joins Torres up front.

Just watch the last couple of games and see how we line up from goal kicks. Even check Carra’s passing statistics from the Guardian chalkboard. A good majority come from the middle third of the right hand side, ie where the full back would be.

Similar to how i dont think i can use 10 games over 4.66 seasons, i also cant use 4 games at the start of this season over the previous 4 years.

Time will tell but during his tenure, Rafa has mostly adopted an inherently cautious approach.

[Craig_H]

But we wouldn't need a third star. Just someone who can do a job in reserve. We could have four star players, but if we have no one to come in for Torres then we aren't really going to win the league.

There's little need to get mixed up in terminology here - my idea of a consistent top drawer matchwinner equates to a star.

A player in reserve who can 'do a job' isnt going to fill in for Torres if he gets injured.

And i was meaning a third ON the pitch, as opposed to backup - where you're not going to get anyone top class anyway.