THE Lucas thread

[JHP]

Lucas doesn't select himself we know it's Rafa that selects him. You've said he's (Lucas) been pretty decent so far this season but you don't understand why he's first choice all the time .... .
I take from that you think Lucas is pretty decent (don't know you're definition of pretty decent but in general parlance it would not warrant significant criticism but a balanced assessment). Also you don’t understand why Rafa selects him as there are potentially better players available.
Again my assessment would be that you are generally OK with Lucas but don’t understand why Rafa is selecting him. Am I missing something obvious?

[Joe King]

Lucas is not untouchable. After seeing Kuyt being subbed on 60, no one is untouchable. Lucas, to some extent, offers some balance to the side. He does a good job at keeping the game ticking and ensuring that the side retains possession. His tackling, work rate, passing is rather good in a very busy area of the pitch. Aquilani ultimately will give us more adventure and more of a different threat from deep.

[Craig_H]

Lucas doesn't select himself we know it's Rafa that selects him. You've said he's (Lucas) been pretty decent so far this season but you don't understand why he's first choice all the time .... .
I take from that you think Lucas is pretty decent (don't know you're definition of pretty decent but in general parlance it would not warrant significant criticism but a balanced assessment). Also you don’t understand why Rafa selects him as there are potentially better players available.
Again my assessment would be that you are generally OK with Lucas but don’t understand why Rafa is selecting him. Am I missing something obvious?

Lucas hasnt had 'significant criticism' from me, so i have no idea where you're coming from there.

Lucas basically plays every single game and i dont think there's an applicable correlation between this and his actual ability. That's all.

I look forward to the next bit of scrutiny

[Craig_H]

Lucas is not untouchable. After seeing Kuyt being subbed on 60, no one is untouchable. Lucas, to some extent, offers some balance to the side. He does a good job at keeping the game ticking and ensuring that the side retains possession. His tackling, work rate, passing is rather good in a very busy area of the pitch. Aquilani ultimately will give us more adventure and more of a different threat from deep.

Not convinced that Aquilani will play particularly deep, myself.

[JHP]

Lucas hasnt had 'significant criticism' from me, so i have no idea where you're coming from there.

Lucas basically plays every single game and i dont think there's an applicable correlation between this and his actual ability. That's all.

I look forward to the next bit of scrutiny

My last post on this and one further piece of scrutiny (I would refer to it as feedback) as you looked forward to it!

There's no significant criticism of Lucas from you (your words), your issue is he plays (and gets selected to play by Rafa) more than his ability warrants.

Sorry but that leads me to conclude your issue is with Rafa. I'm just pointing out how what you say comes across to a third party with an open mind, if you don't want to accept it that fine I've got no issue.

[Craig_H]

Every single opinion contrary to what happens, could be deemed as an 'issue with Rafa'.

Unless you think Rafa gets every single decision right and agree with every single thing he does, you could also therefore be deemed to have 'an issue with rafa'.

Think you're looking too deeply into it, for analysis - which would be great if you were doing a college essay

[Joe King]

Not convinced that Aquilani will play particularly deep, myself.

I think he'll start between Gerrard and Mascherano however will have to defend in a deeper position.

[Marky]

Lucas is coming along nicely. He's along way off him, but he reminds me of Pirlo
a little bit. If he turns out half as good we're onto a winner.

[DannyMan2006]

Lucas is coming along nicely. He's along way off him, but he reminds me of Pirlo
a little bit. If he turns out half as good we're onto a winner.

Nothing of the sort mate. Pirlo is an Alonso style player who dictates the tempo from deep and has a great passing range.

I'm not exactly sure what type of midfielder Lucas is, or will become. But he will never be a similar player to Alonso and Pirlo. He's much more mobile than both for a start.

[Guest]

Nothing of the sort mate. Pirlo is an Alonso style player who dictates the tempo from deep and has a great passing range.

I'm not exactly sure what type of midfielder Lucas is, or will become. But he will never be a similar player to Alonso and Pirlo. He's much more mobile than both for a start.

That's a good thing IMO. We still have the ability to control games though, which is heartening, judging by our performance on Saturday. Losing Alonso doesn't seem to have diminished that ability and Lucas is playing a big part in that, as he hardly loses the ball.

[MrMichael]

It's a simple formula on here - if people agree with Rafa, they know their stuff.

If they disagree with anything rafa does, or make any criticial point about any player or anything, they 'dont know anything about football'.

That's just not true at all...... not that it stops you wheeling it out on an almost daily basis.

EVERY SUBJECT IS NOT NECESSARILY A BLACK AND WHITE ISSUE!!!!! However much you try to make them so

A lot of people disagree with Rafa's decisions quite regularly and express critical opinions about players; its not that disagreement/criticism itself that is ever an issue, its the means by which its expressed.

Plus, well, god forbid a majority of fans on a football forum ever happened to support their manager or players

[Craig_H]

Short of 'this player is ****, the manager is clueless', i'm not sure which means of expression causes a problem. I was generalising of course, but there ARE people on here who will basically 'rate' your views if they're in agreement with the manager, and completely dismiss your 'nous' if you happen to disagree with him.

That is the case with a few, however much you try to make it not

[Kenneth]

A significant number of people are voting for him in their top 3 in alot of matches, surely people aren't just voting for him out of sympathy. He must be doing something right, and there are alot of players who are playing worse than him but getting alot less critisism. Yes you could argue these players have played well over long periods of time and Lucas hasn't (as many people have) but surely the time to criticise isn't when he's one of our better players, as is the case at the moment.

In all honesty, I think a lot of people are. I think that for some peope, he's a shoe-in for a MOM nomination as soon as his name is on the teamsheet. There's a Lucas backlash backlash going on which means the merits of his performances are often over-egged. Some people love the underdog and I think this is winning him votes.

[Craig_H]

I dont think people are voting for him as soon as they see his name on the teamsheet.

I do think however, that players are judged by the standards they set themselves, so if Lucas plays better than the poor standard that some may have in mind as 'his' level, then he'll get votes.

By the same token, if Gerrard has an 'average' game by Gerrard standards, people may get on his back a little, despite the fact that even an average Gerrard is still better than most players.

[MrMichael]

Short of 'this player is ****, the manager is clueless', i'm not sure which means of expression causes a problem. I was generalising of course, but there ARE people on here who will basically 'rate' your views if they're in agreement with the manager, and completely dismiss your 'nous' if you happen to disagree with him.

That is the case with a few, however much you try to make it not

I refuse to get into a circular discussion about this (this thread would make a hula hoop dizzy as it is), however before I exit gracefully I would just like to point out that your previous post I quoted was insinuating that a large percentage of people follow a "simple formula". If you're talking about "a few" then you're probably right, just as for a few everything a player or a manager ever does will be wrong, and as a few think they are household pets..... but that wasn't what you initially said.

Most people see things in various shades of grey, as we already established on multiple occasions last season, categorizing everyone in a RCDNW or RCDNR camp is just reductive of most people's actual views, and serves the purpose of interesting discussion only negatively. So stop it, it drives me utterly mad; people wanting to be supportive of the manager or a player is not an inherently bad thing, it is possible to explain an alternative view point to them in a constructive manner without forcing a total polarisation you know.

At the start of this thread I reckon I mainly agreed with you about Lucas but by the end of it I'm inclined to disagree just because of statements like the one before! So knock it off