Alonso Speaks...

[tomasjj]

What part about this saga do people not understand? The summer Rafa tried to sell Alonso we had (imo) Gerrard, Torres, Reina, Alonso, Mascher as full on saleable assets who anyteam in the world would want (again imo).
Out of those players Rafa deemed Alonso expendible so he was 'sacrificed' with the idea being we could bring in a replacement (Barry) and have some spare cash for further transfer dealings because of our limited funds.
Now Alonso who everyone is crying over and feeling sorry for didn't attract a single bid until Juve came in and offered approx £15 m (from memory, might have been Euros) this followed 2 seasons where Alonso was average and very below par - if people want to use the injuries as an excuse then fine but his performances were what they were.

It's pure economics, Rafa had an underperforming asset who he felt we could upgrade and make a profit, but no 12 mths ago no-one wanted him except Juve, no-one else put a bid in so that tells you what world football thought of his last 2 seasons.

Now last year Xabi was immense, absolutely first class all the way through and 100% credit to him for that but that was 1 whole consistent season out of the 5 at the club, he wanted to leave back in May but didn't grow a set of balls until August, Rafa held out for the best possible price Madrid did what they do and Xabi left.
Let's not buy this 'blame Rafa' bollocks it is clear that if Xabi wanted to still be here he would be, Rafa played him all last season, Xabi played brilliantly Xabi has now moved on because he wanted to play for Madrid, wanted to move back to Spain (for family and financial reasons - lets not forget his whinging about the pound/euro and tax etc..) and most importantly he wanted to leave Liverpool.


Support the manager, staff and players who are still here, don't look through rose tinted glasses at those who thought the grass was greener

Selective memory of its finest.

I support the manager, but it doesn't mean I think he is a deity of some kind.
He is a stubborn ****er, who, luckily for us, gets more rights than wrongs.

[Shaggy]

Selective memory of its finest.

I disagree, and also it seems disingenuous to highlight one line out of an entire post.

I’d say 2 out 5 (actually it was four seasons wasn’t? Two good, two ****e) – but IMO it’s not even up for debate that his form for the middle two seasons was turd. The fact we couldn’t sell him and received just one solitary offer for him last summer testifies to this.

[Tee]

Selective memory of its finest.

I support the manager, but it doesn't mean I think he is a deity of some kind.
He is a stubborn ****er, who, luckily for us, gets more rights than wrongs.

How embarrasing that he is called a 'pussy' by so called fans when he stood up to be counted after the way he was treated last summer and put in a superb shift for us.

He has left, lets move on and appreciate the fact that he still clearly holds Liverpool Fc and the 'fans' in such high regard.

[red g]

Selective memory of its finest.

I support the manager, but it doesn't mean I think he is a deity of some kind.
He is a stubborn ****er, who, luckily for us, gets more rights than wrongs.

indeed he is, but funnily enough it did work with Alonso....after being told he was being sold he had his best season with us of that there is no doubt, if it wasnt for them ****s at Madrid going money mad i am pretty sure he would still be here......regardless of what he says

[Craig_H]

Possibly to justify your opening comment?

[tomasjj]

I disagree, and also it seems disingenuous to highlight one line out of an entire post.

I’d say 2 out 5 (actually it was four seasons wasn’t? Two good, two ****e) – but IMO it’s not even up for debate that his form for the middle two seasons was turd. The fact we couldn’t sell him and received just one solitary offer for him last summer testifies to this.

I cannot be bothered do dissect the whole post now. Perhaps later when at work

So...the way we rate how well players do is either: turd, ok, player of the season? His first and last season was so consistent and good that the others were put in the shadow, doesn't mean they were "turd".
I think you are wrong, but you'll do doubt get over it.

[EwarWoo]

after being told he was being sold he had his best season with us of that there is no doubt

I've never bought that argument and never will.

He had his best season after getting back to full fitness after a spate of injuries.

Being whored about had nothing to do with it.

[Shaggy]

If he was anything other than largely turd for those two seasons, why was nobody interested in buying him?

[Craig_H]

If he was anything other than largely turd for those two seasons, why was nobody interested in buying him?

That's not true though is it? Clubs were interested, but they just couldnt meet the asking price.

[tomasjj]

I've never bought that argument and never will.

He had his best season after getting back to full fitness after a spate of injuries.

Being whored about had nothing to do with it.

I don't buy that one either. It is one of them straw arguments that gets wheeled out in hindsight.
To credit Rafa, and his desire to sell Xabi, for Xabi's good form is to me ridiculous, and bordering on giving the manager credit for his own inabilities to get the best out of said player. It was Rafa who shoehorned Xabi into Hamann's old position...when Xabi was doing so well in a more advanced position.
Xabi stepped up his game, period. And in hindsight wanting to hand that credit to Rafa, cause he almost pushed him out the door. Get out of here.

[tomasjj]

If he was anything other than largely turd for those two seasons, why was nobody interested in buying him?

Was he for sale?
Did he want to go?

Sorry, but that is another straw-argument.

[Neil Young]

I've never bought that argument and never will.

He had his best season after getting back to full fitness after a spate of injuries.

Being whored about had nothing to do with it.

How do you know?

I suspect you can't be certain about that and it's silly to suggest otherwise. Just as no-one can be sure Rafa trying to sell him was the cause of his vastly improved form.

However, the fact is he played better last season after he had recovered from various injuries and after Rafa had tried to sell him.

As for the idea posted earlier in the thread (by that ever-flexible mind, Craig) that Rafa is too stubborn to change his mind, the fact he said he didn't want to sell him this year seems to suggest the opposite. Then again, we don't know whether he was just saying that to make sure the price was as high as possible and, even if that was the case, whether that was because he wanted him to leave or because Alonso had made it clear he would leave and that Rafa believed he was powerless was stop him. And even if that was Rafa's belief, is that because he really believed it or because deep down he wanted to sell Alonso without perhaps being entirely aware of the fact...

There are so many assumptions in this thread about what happened and what caused it and what we can deduce from it and strangely how people choose to see it backs up what they choose to think about it.

[EwarWoo]

If he was anything other than largely turd for those two seasons, why was nobody interested in buying him?

Did I say he played fantastic those 2 seasons? Straw mans a calling again?

I disagree with the reasoning, not the quality.

He was in and out of fitness and didn't have a chance to get a good run together and get his form back.

Towards the end of those 2 seasons he had started to show signs of recovery (especially that match against Newcastle, some sublime passing skills were seen there), but in the main he was average at best yes.

Not to mention he was in and out of fitness so that would put a question mark over buying at the price we were asking as well.

[Craig_H]

As for the idea posted earlier in the thread (by that ever-flexible mind, Craig) that Rafa is too stubborn to change his mind

Where did i post that then?

[red g]

I don't buy that one either. It is one of them straw arguments that gets wheeled out in hindsight.
To credit Rafa, and his desire to sell Xabi, for Xabi's good form is to me ridiculous, and bordering on giving the manager credit for his own inabilities to get the best out of said player. It was Rafa who shoehorned Xabi into Hamann's old position...when Xabi was doing so well in a more advanced position.
Xabi stepped up his game, period. And in hindsight wanting to hand that credit to Rafa, cause he almost pushed him out the door. Get out of here.

whther it was

a) wanting to prove rafa wrong
b) playing for a move
c) getting back from injuries

we will never know, but also on the flipside we will never know that if Rafa didnt try and sell him whether he would have had a great season last year or a distinctly average( for xabi) as per previous 2 seasons....works both ways!