2010 Home grown player quota

[dww]

And he's right. Again, this demonstrates the incompetence of the PL administrators.

I'm not sure that is fair in this instance. I think the two camps simply have different interests - the PL in a sustainable league that keeps audiences high and has minimal external interference. I see this as much as a pre-emptive strike to stop any intrusion from UEFA as anything else. I also think that long term whether through imports or academy improvements that it is aimed to, and might possibly achieve, the goal of improving the reserve league as it is more important for teams to develop players who are home grown. The short term increase in home grown player price will probably accelerate this need.

From Rafa's point of view anything that prevents him having the best players in his squad is hindering his job. Not helped by the fact that he feels our youth system has been failing for the last decade (if comments from his new BFF Purslow are to be believed). I think he is right about the reserve league but then surely something needs to be done to either improve it directly or to drive organic improvement in that area.

[BrianF80]

I'm with RedReet there are a number of players the loss of would make little difference to the squad on that list and some we would probably want to sell anyway. I certainly don't see many difficult decisions. the only thing I see it changing is the chances given to Spearing vs Plessis this season (unless as suggested the latter will qualify as home grown). It will be interesting to see if Kyrgiakos has been bought as a long term option or a stop gap for this season.

Yeah going over it again Voronin vs. Nemeth is probably the only really tricky one. Although I have to admit I don't like being forced to sacrifice Plessis for Spearing. Plessis is a proper holding midfielder whereas Spearing most definitely is not. Getting decent money for the players we are getting rid of is probably going to be the biggest problem.

[Exiled_red]

I don't really see the major problem as we are already subjected to those rules when playing the CL - so we must have a squad for it.

And I do believe that Nemeth qualifies as homegrown next year.

But it wont really stop what they intend to, as Rafa is suggesting. It just means that youngsters will be poached even earlier because of these requirements.

If this was purely for talent development issues then it would surely be better to ban signing contracts with players under 18, or set the no. of years up to 5 so it would basically be illegal to bring in youngsters from abroad.

That's what I was thinking, rules such as this cause problems elsewhere, in this case I agree we'll see more foreign players coming in at a younger age.

It is also going to mean even crap English players price goes up

[dww]

Yeah going over it again Voronin vs. Nemeth is probably the only really tricky one. Although I have to admit I don't like being forced to sacrifice Plessis for Spearing. Plessis is a proper holding midfielder whereas Spearing most definitely is not. Getting decent money for the players we are getting rid of is probably going to be the biggest problem.

The thing is though that I'd rather Lucas covered the genuine holding player position as I think he is better at it than Plessis. There is potential in Plessis (as evidenced by his debut) but I really think he needs to go out on loan and play proper top level games. He needs to make (and learn from) mistakes in a genuinely competitive environment IMO.

I can see what you mean about the players we need to sell - that said I don't think we really need to get big values if we can get the wages taken on by another club for the likes of Degen, Dossena or even Voronin. I know Dossena cost money but he hasn't contributed hugely to the squad and we have players who can cover his position.

As Rafa has alluded to it's whether we can get players like Kelly, Derby, Spearing, Pacheco etc. up to the standard needed to be useful in the squad that is the problem. Otherwise we may have to go looking for players in a market where clubs will over price 'homegrown' talents.

I do wonder though whether we will see a run of young English players seeing out their contracts to see if they can maximise their value as free agents - with Johnson at Boro being the most obvious example that comes to mind.

[BrianF80]

The thing is though that I'd rather Lucas covered the genuine holding player position as I think he is better at it than Plessis. There is potential in Plessis (as evidenced by his debut) but I really think he needs to go out on loan and play proper top level games. He needs to make (and learn from) mistakes in a genuinely competitive environment IMO.

Agree re:Lucas etc. It just annoys me that someone who has the game intelligence to play the holding role well could end up being shouldered out for a huffer and puffer. Development is another entirely different issue as Rafa alluded to, again.

I can see what you mean about the players we need to sell - that said I don't think we really need to get big values if we can get the wages taken on by another club for the likes of Degen, Dossena or even Voronin. I know Dossena cost money but he hasn't contributed hugely to the squad and we have players who can cover his position.

Again maybe I'm just on a downer but for me it wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility that we end up having to carry some of these players wages to get a deal done ( a la Heskey) and with low expectations on the fee that might end up being more than the fee. For example, if we have to carry half of the purported 40K/week that Degen is on thats 2m. Can you see us getting 2m for him? If they'd just introduced this over a couple of years it would have avoided us having to face the possibility of those type of penalties.

As Rafa has alluded to it's whether we can get players like Kelly, Derby, Spearing, Pacheco etc. up to the standard needed to be useful in the squad that is the problem. Otherwise we may have to go looking for players in a market where clubs will over price 'homegrown' talents.

That much will be interesting. It's pretty clear Rafa likes to bring his players on micro-step by micro-step. Looks like he may be denied that luxury, which puts a whacking great spotlight on the new reserves setup and the 18 () games they have to prepare the players for the step-up.

I do wonder though whether we will see a run of young English players seeing out their contracts to see if they can maximise their value as free agents - with Johnson at Boro being the most obvious example that comes to mind.

Do you think that will happen though? Surely, Boro can't afford to miss out on a fee for him.

[RedReet]

I presume the U21's can be any nationality? And does anyone know if they must be under 21 as the season begins / ends or if there is a cut off date?

[dww]

Again maybe I'm just on a downer but for me it wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility that we end up having to carry some of these players wages to get a deal done ( a la Heskey) and with low expectations on the fee that might end up being more than the fee. For example, if we have to carry half of the purported 40K/week that Degen is on thats 2m. Can you see us getting 2m for him? If they'd just introduced this over a couple of years it would have avoided us having to face the possibility of those type of penalties.

Sometimes I think you just have to look at it as £2m gained as they are off the wage bill and weren't contributing anything - even if you are still paying out for them. That was our decision and I don't really think that the players we are referring to have had their values altered greatly by the ruling - no PL sides seemed very keen in the summer at least.

That much will be interesting. It's pretty clear Rafa likes to bring his players on micro-step by micro-step. Looks like he may be denied that luxury, which puts a whacking great spotlight on the new reserves setup and the 18 () games they have to prepare the players for the step-up.

Aye. This is mad. I believe Spurs didn't enter the reserve league this season in order to set up their own schedule of games. So if such a traditionalist as Redknapp sees the problems then surely other people do too.

I'd like to see the FA/PL appoint someone with a background in youth development (Roeder maybe) to try and come up with a better format/system.

Do you think that will happen though? Surely, Boro can't afford to miss out on a fee for him.

I think they have to try and keep their better players this season no matter what - the financial reward of getting back to the PL far outweighs any transfer fee they would get for individual players.

[RedReet]

I'd like to see the FA/PL appoint someone with a background in youth development (Roeder maybe) to try and come up with a better format/system.

Houllier.

[BrianF80]

Sometimes I think you just have to look at it as £2m gained as they are off the wage bill and weren't contributing anything - even if you are still paying out for them. That was our decision and I don't really think that the players we are referring to have had their values altered greatly by the ruling - no PL sides seemed very keen in the summer at least.

Good point. Sunk costs and all that.

Aye. This is mad. I believe Spurs didn't enter the reserve league this season in order to set up their own schedule of games. So if such a traditionalist as Redknapp sees the problems then surely other people do too.

I'd like to see the FA/PL appoint someone with a background in youth development (Roeder maybe) to try and come up with a better format/system.

Brooking has been trying to do that for years apparently there is a power struggle between the FA and the PL and the FA as usual instead of trying to lead by their actions insist on trying to beat the PL into submission so it seems like there is a stand-off.

A while back a mate sent me links to some videos of Ferguson and Wenger talking about the issues with youth development and they went way beyond the obvious stuff like 18 games. Both said there isn't a structure in place to get stuff done though, it just all degenerates into dogma and bickering.

If no-one is listening to them two with the record they have for developing players, it's a pretty screwed up situation.

I think they have to try and keep their better players this season no matter what - the financial reward of getting back to the PL far outweighs any transfer fee they would get for individual players.

Yeah good point.

[the rev leeroy brown]

another stupid UEFA / FA ruling that is supposed to help the national teams. **** the national teams. i support lfc. i want the best 25 players in world football playing for us not some average english player like a danny guthrie or such. pathetic ruling.

[Scratch]

With regards to the reserves....why can't the reserves from one PL side play ther reserves from another...ok, it would involve more travel, but at least they would be playing a full schedule...ok, so there are some teams that don't have a reserve team, but if they were playing a full schedule, would it not be in their best interests to do so?

[RedReet]

With regards to the reserves....why can't the reserves from one PL side play ther reserves from another...ok, it would involve more travel, but at least they would be playing a full schedule...ok, so there are some teams that don't have a reserve team, but if they were playing a full schedule, would it not be in their best interests to do so?

Or play eachother 4 times like in Scotland or add an extra cup competition? It really is a strange setup.

[DannyMan2006]

I don't see too many major changes. I think the only possible changes could be that there would be less chances taken on foreign players of a young age, who would not be at the club long enough to become home grown.

It would also mean less chance of us buying average standard foreign players. I think overall it's a great ruling. The only negative for me would be that we could end up holding on to English players because they qualify as homegrown, and not because they are good enough.

[G]

With Regards to Nemeth,He turns 21 in January next by which time he will have been trained by us for 2 and a half years and the rule says they have to be trained for 3 years by the time of their 21st birthday so depending how strictly this is applied he'll be considered not home grown next season.

[DannyMan2006]

With Regards to Nemeth,He turns 21 in January next by which time he will have been trained by us for 2 and a half years and the rule says they have to be trained for 3 years by the time of their 21st birthday so depending how strictly this is applied he'll be considered not home grown next season.

That is one of the problems with the ruling.