Chelsea v Liverpool - post match thread

[the rev leeroy brown]

One more thing, everyone is praising Skrtel and yet having a go at Mascherano for one mistake.

Well had Skrtel marked Drogba tighter he would not have had the freedom of the park to look up and whip in a dangerous cross for Anelka to score.

Mascherano and Skrtel both had good games and maybe made only one mistake each all game. Yet the one mistake they made is where Chelsea scored from. Fine margins in the big games.

personally i blame carra for both goals. he lost anelka big time and was in no mans land for the first and was then bullied completely off the ball for the second goal.

[DannyMan2006]

Maybe too late by then. Not sure you can have a poor first half to the season then expect to win the league by having a brilliant second half.

Of course you can - depending on a defenition of poor.

I know for a fact that if Chelsea or Man Utd had started similar to us their fans would not be worried like ours. The reason is because they have the faith and knowledge that their team is capable of winning ten games on the spin.

Everyone on this site is worried because we do not know if this current Liverpool squad is capable of doing so. We have had the sale of Alonso rammed down our throats by the media and have had little ammo to fight back as our major summer signing has been out injured.

We have made the second biggest signing in our history in the summer, yet without seeing him play our mindless fans have given up hope of being capable of going on a long winning run. All they see is the current first XI and a lack of depth. We went into the Chelsea game with potentially the best playmaker in our squad missing and still bossed much of the game, but people do not see that.

They see Lucas and Mascherano as first choice, despite Rafa saying since the signing of Aquilani that he would be a key player who will link the midfield to attack, that he will play between Mascherano and Gerrard and be the link that was ALSO LACKING when Alonso played for the club last season - see the defeat to Chelsea in the CL at Anfield as evidence - and the cL games against them in the previous year.

[-V-]

Gerrard rarely ever performs against Chelsea because the centre midfield is always packed out and he never gets space and Essien never gives him anywhere to go

Rafa plays to contain and play tight because he likes to be in control of the match at all times. He won't play 442 against Chelsea because he knows the game will be too open and we will take too many risks for his liking

Anyway i barely even reacted to those goals and final whistle as I wasn't expecting much. For me its a point dropped, but as long as we beat them, scum and arsenal at anfield then it won't matter as much

[Shaggy]

personally i blame carra for both goals. he lost anelka big time and was in no mans land for the first and was then bullied completely off the ball for the second goal.

The 2nd in particular was so ****ing soft.

I know the idea upsets a lot of people but I'd drop him when Agger's ready.

[DannyMan2006]

personally i blame carra for both goals. he lost anelka big time and was in no mans land for the first and was then bullied completely off the ball for the second goal.

I think it is difficult to blame a defender in Carras situation for the first goal. He was level with Anelka and in prime position to cut out the ball, but the cross was that good that the curve allowed Anelka the extra time to close down the ball - even then he only just managed to control the shot and keep it under the bar. Had Carra dropped closer to Anelka, he was in danger of Anelka stepping in front of him and nipping in front for a tap in. Of course, we now know Anelka would maybe not have made it had he done this, but that's the benefit of hindsight.

Had Skrtel been tighter to Drogba he would have prevented such a great cross coming in, maybe not preventing the cross, but taking away some of the quality of it. It was a top quality cross that out done Carra.

For the second Carra was bullied and was simply not good enough to stop Drogba. He could have been helped better by Aurelio, but he needs to be better in those areas. That said, Drogba is the best in the world at that and i've seen him do it to the worlds best on many an occasion.

[DannyMan2006]

The 2nd in particular was so ****ing soft.

I know the idea upsets a lot of people but I'd drop him when Agger's ready.

You say that, but I've seen Agger bullied by Drogba in the past. In fact, of all our defenders only Skrtel has stood up to him toe to toe and not come of worse.

I wouldn't have a go at Carra based on that performance. That said, if you think his performances overall have not been good enough then fair enough. Personally I don't think he's done worse than any other of our starting CB this year.

[the rev leeroy brown]

The 2nd in particular was so ****ing soft.

I know the idea upsets a lot of people but I'd drop him when Agger's ready.

the idea upsets me as carra is a legend. but i'm hoping so much for a skrtel / agger partnership at the back. the big man in skrtel to mould into the carra rola nd agger to play the ball out of defense.,

[JohnDoe]

You say that, but I've seen Agger bullied by Drogba in the past. In fact, of all our defenders only Skrtel has stood up to him toe to toe and not come of worse.

I wouldn't have a go at Carra based on that performance. That said, if you think his performances overall have not been good enough then fair enough. Personally I don't think he's done worse than any other of our starting CB this year.

Agger had one bad game against Drogba (his first) and had him in his pocket from that point on. Carragher consistently gets the piss taken out of him against any good-to-great striker if he's not protected.

[Tee]

You say that, but I've seen Agger bullied by Drogba in the past. In fact, of all our defenders only Skrtel has stood up to him toe to toe and not come of worse.

I wouldn't have a go at Carra based on that performance. That said, if you think his performances overall have not been good enough then fair enough. Personally I don't think he's done worse than any other of our starting CB this year.

If anything I would be tempted to play Agger and Carra. Skrtel has not impressed me at all this season.

[wildman]

You say that, but I've seen Agger bullied by Drogba in the past. In fact, of all our defenders only Skrtel has stood up to him toe to toe and not come of worse.

I wouldn't have a go at Carra based on that performance. That said, if you think his performances overall have not been good enough then fair enough. Personally I don't think he's done worse than any other of our starting CB this year.

yes but carra has been **** every game not just against driogba

[DannyMan2006]

yes but carra has been **** every game not just against driogba

And I disagree, but I'm no footy expert.

[dww]

I think people are being ridiculously critical of Carra here. The second goal he was to blame for but the first was mostly just excellent play by Chelsea.

Agger has been excellent technically but suspect defensively a fair amount of the time when he has been in the team. He was kept out of the team a lot last season by Skrtel and Carragher because both played better than he did when given a chance. That said it was Skrtels first good game of the season yesterday in my view. Carragher hasn't had a great season but for a defender without pace it is usual to be dragged down by an underperforming unit and so far this season defensively question marks can be put against the shielding midfielders and both fullbacks (although part of the latter is that we have consciously moved to use them in a more attacking way).

I feared at the start of the season that it would be a transitional one and it looks like I am being proved correct. We have found a way to demolish poor teams but have struggled to link the various parts of the team cohesively against better teams. For all the wailing and gnashing of teeth I think we made considerable progress in the game yesterday compared with previously this season. We were undone by one great counter (where Mascherano made a mistake to allow them possession when we were badly placed to defend) and a single one-on-one error by Carragher. In general we defended set pieces much better and dominated considerable periods of the game against a very good team.

There weren't many clear cut chances for either side and Torres, Benayoun and Gerrard were all guilty of not making the most of what we did create. People making it out like this was a disastrous performance and not just a very disappointing result are in my view wrong.

[Kenneth]

I think people are being ridiculously critical of Carra here. The second goal he was to blame for but teh first was mostly just excellent play by Chelsea.

Agger has been excellent technically but suspect defensively a fair amount of the time when he has been in the team. He was kept out of the team a lot last season by Skrtel and Carragher because both played better than he did when given a chance. That said it was Skrtels first good game of the season yesterday in my view. Carragher hasn't had a great season but for a defender without pace it is usual to be dragged down by an underperforming unit and so far this season defensively question marks can be put against the shielding midfielders and both fullbacks (although part of the latter is that we have consciously moved to use them in a more attacking way).

I feared at the start of the season that it would be a transitional one and it looks like I am being proved correct. We have found a way to demolish poor teams but have struggled to link the various parts of the team cohesively against better teams. For all the wailing and gnashing of teeth I think we made considerable progress in the game yesterday compared with previously this season. We were undone by one great counter (where Mascherano made a mistake to allow them possession when we were badly placed to defend) and a single one-on-one error by Carragher. In general we defended set pieces much better and dominated considerable periods of the game against a very good team.

There weren't many clear cut chances for either side and Torres, Benayoun and Gerrard were all guilty of not making the most of what we did create. People making it out like this was a disastrous performance and not just a very disappointing result are in my view wrong.

I agree, we were just slightly worse than them when it came to being clinical in the final third.

Curious as to the transitional period. From what to what do you mean? Life with Alonso to life without?

[dww]

I agree, we were just slightly worse than them when it came to being clinical in the final third.

Curious as to the transitional period. From what to what do you mean? Life with Alonso to life without?

Alonso was a key part but also I thought that a further step along the road to using attacking fullbacks would mean that we needed time to adjust in that way as well. One or the other of these two changes and I think it would be a fairly easy progression both together I worried would take time and I think that is what we are seeing.

I think it has been made more difficult by Aggers injury as in the past he has allowed us to play the whole team higher up the pitch due to his ability to distribute from deep and run with the ball at his feet.

Edit: I also think a key factor is that in the summer we lost two of our out field leaders from the squad in Alonso and Hyypia. Not only this but they were the ones who were cool heads and helped us when times were tough. I really think how well Agger, Skrtel and Lucas can take responsibility and whether they can take on that role in the team is key. So far none of them have to my mind shown any real signs of stepping up but then in the past they have not been asked to take that responsibility and some players (notable Rio Ferdinand) grew hugely as players and leaders by having the position thrust upon them.

[the rev leeroy brown]

There weren't many clear cut chances for either side and Torres, Benayoun and Gerrard were all guilty of not making the most of what we did create. People making it out like this was a disastrous performance and not just a very disappointing result are in my view wrong.

agreed 100%. we did perform well. so did chelsea and it was a pretty even encounter. what grates on me is the fact that we seemed to run out of ideas at times in the last third and chelsea weren't really bothered much by our attack....hence the fact i'm angered by the decision to leave out yossi. likewise i'm annoyed by IMO carra being our weak point in defense. 0-0 would have been a fair scoreline.