Liverpool v Sunderland Post Match Thread

[tomasjj]

Oh come on, Rafa has agreed to sell on the likes of Crouch, Keane, Bellamy, Alonso, Arbeloa and replaced them with players of not only like for like, but inferior ability. This is his fault. We're now lacking completely in attack, Voronin and Ngog as the second choice strikerforce....lets not kid ourselves, they wouldn't make the backup for Birmingham let alone Liverpool. £1.5...haven't we spent £20m on someone who's yet to kick a ball since March? £17m on a fb...oh, we're so poor.

Torres aside (several of europes top clubs were after him so its hardly a genius transfer, but he wouldn't go to any other spanish club and LFC is the next best thing) Rafa does not have anything in this side thats an improvement to what we had under Houllier. There are one or two points of argument where opinions will be split, but besides Torres, who do we have in the side now who's better than Houllier had? Markus Babel, Gerrard, Carra, Hyypia, Henchoz, Hamman, Owen, Heskey, Smicer, Bench Fowler, Berger, Ziege and Murphy. Actually, sod that, where's the argument? That is by far a better squad than we have now.

Rafa was very, very fortunate last season, and even with the fortune, he failed to win the league with what must be the weakest league run thay the Mancs, Chavs and Arsenal have had, yet he still managed to **** it up.

Rafa is completely to blame for this, despite the injuries, this squad is very weak. Don't even mention Aquilani...we've bought a player unproven in the EPL for £20m who hasn't even kicked a ball for the best part of the year.

Rafa's fecked up, if he fails to get us into the CL next season, he deserves to go and should go.

Oh, and I'm not defending Babel anymore. If he wants to shout his mouth off about a lack of opportunities at LFC, then he needs to put in better performances asap and proce everyone wrong.

Allow me to comment:

Aquilani: Signing an injured player was a serious risk. Looks a mistake now before he has even played.
Alonso: wanted to go. Not on Rafa.
Crouch: had to be sold as he didnt want to be back up. Contract running down.
Keane: didnt fit in. Also alegedly not rafa's priority signing. Should have been replaced though. Agree.
Arbeloa: Replaced by a better player...
Ngog - talented, with a good scoring record.

[Exiled_red]

Oh come on, Rafa has agreed to sell on the likes of Crouch, Keane, Bellamy, Alonso, Arbeloa and replaced them with players of not only like for like, but inferior ability. This is his fault. We're now lacking completely in attack, Voronin and Ngog as the second choice strikerforce....lets not kid ourselves, they wouldn't make the backup for Birmingham let alone Liverpool. £1.5...haven't we spent £20m on someone who's yet to kick a ball since March? £17m on a fb...oh, we're so poor.

Torres aside (several of europes top clubs were after him so its hardly a genius transfer, but he wouldn't go to any other spanish club and LFC is the next best thing) Rafa does not have anything in this side thats an improvement to what we had under Houllier. There are one or two points of argument where opinions will be split, but besides Torres, who do we have in the side now who's better than Houllier had? Markus Babel, Gerrard, Carra, Hyypia, Henchoz, Hamman, Owen, Heskey, Smicer, Bench Fowler, Berger, Ziege and Murphy. Actually, sod that, where's the argument? That is by far a better squad than we have now.

Rafa was very, very fortunate last season, and even with the fortune, he failed to win the league with what must be the weakest league run thay the Mancs, Chavs and Arsenal have had, yet he still managed to **** it up.

Rafa is completely to blame for this, despite the injuries, this squad is very weak. Don't even mention Aquilani...we've bought a player unproven in the EPL for £20m who hasn't even kicked a ball for the best part of the year.

Rafa's fecked up, if he fails to get us into the CL next season, he deserves to go and should go.

Oh, and I'm not defending Babel anymore. If he wants to shout his mouth off about a lack of opportunities at LFC, then he needs to put in better performances asap and proce everyone wrong.

In what way was he fortunate and in what way were the mancs, chavs and arsenal weak? Man Utd won the league with 90 points.

I agree that Rafa has made some mistakes most notably in not signing a quality back up to Torres, the Aquilani signing also did raise some questions.

As for the comparison with the Houllier squad, I believe this squad is better than the one you listed but has a number of players off form. Last season you would have undoubtedly said that squad was better than Houlllier's, the only real change is losing Alonso and replacing him with Aquilani.

I also believe something happened with the transfer budget this summer as after signing Johnson we were supposed to be in for a couple of other expensive players then suddenly we have to sell to buy.

[barnes10]

we were just **** again. carragher has seriously lost it. rafa and most of the team relies on his organisation and playing out of his skin. its a lot to ask of one man sure but basically, we need more character and steel across the back four and we no longer have it. we're pretty screwed for this season with a defence as sh1t as ours.

i dont think we'll finish in the top 4 this season as without sami and alonso with a dodgy carragher, our defensive solidity has been royally screwed. with arsenal spurs and city all upping their game, the signs are ominous.

[FatTony]

Allow me to comment:

Aquilani: Signing an injured player was a serious risk. Looks a mistake now before he has even played.
Alonso: wanted to go. Not on Rafa.
Crouch: had to be sold as he didnt want to be back up. Contract running down.
Keane: didnt fit in. Also alegedly not rafa's priority signing. Should have been replaced though. Agree.
Arbeloa: Replaced by a better player...
Ngog - talented, with a good scoring record.

Do you have the right player? 3 goals in two seasons at PSG....

As far as players "wanting" to go, that doesn't mean you have to let them. I have no doubt that Alonso and Crouch would've still played their best if we'd kept them.

Arbeloa, replaced with better? He's better defensively than Johnson, Johnson is better going forward. We lost 2 games all season last year and 4 in 9 so far. Besides that, Arbeloa is a better left back than he is right, so you could argue that he's been replaced by Insua, in which case the argument has no grounds at all.

[FatTony]

In what way was he fortunate and in what way were the mancs, chavs and arsenal weak? Man Utd won the league with 90 points.

I agree that Rafa has made some mistakes most notably in not signing a quality back up to Torres, the Aquilani signing also did raise some questions.

As for the comparison with the Houllier squad, I believe this squad is better than the one you listed but has a number of players off form. Last season you would have undoubtedly said that squad was better than Houlllier's, the only real change is losing Alonso and replacing him with Aquilani.

I also believe something happened with the transfer budget this summer as after signing Johnson we were supposed to be in for a couple of other expensive players then suddenly we have to sell to buy.

He was fortunate in that both the Chavs and Mancs had extremely uncharacterically bad periods. Normally one of the pair will have a really poor patch, which is ultimately the deciding factor, both had very poor periods last season.

We can talk only of Alonso, but as I've said before, Arbeloa was a far better player than most realised. The pair of them added a lot more to the side, but Alonso is obviously the major weakness. His relationship and understanding with Gerrard you just can't replace. Alonso unleashed Gerrard, and its no surprise that Gerrard has been piss poor this season without him.

Rafa has spent a fortune, not brought in quality backup and not brought in quality young players. Aquilani, as I said on his transfer, will either be a stroke of genius or the decision that costs Rafa his job, and on current evidence, he'll be the sword om which Rafa will fall.

[Ben_Itez]

Depressed with the performance.

But we were missing 5 first choice players in Gerrard, Torres, Insua, Mascherano and Aquilani with a combined market value of about 160 million which is 2 and a half times the value of the team we had playing today. I know it sounds a lame excuse and it is to a certain degree. We should be doing better.

People bemoan the lack of replacement strikers for Torres but we had Keane last year who was sold and im certain Rafa thought he'd have the money recouped to spend on another striker. Crouch was sold and replaced with Keane and Bellamy was sold to help fund the Torres purchase.

Compare our team at this point last year and we've sold Keane, Alonso and Arbeloa for about 50 mill and replaced them with Johnson and Aquilani for 37 mill, hardly the significant financial backing we need or indeed claimed by the owners.

Things arent going well but surely they cant get much worse? Two very important games coming up and despite our **** performance today we were essentially beaten by a ****ing beach ball!

Onwards and upwards.

[el matador]

there is a widely held belief within the media that actually man utd didnt win the title but that we lost it - and more specifically Rafa Benitez lost it for Liverpool.

If he hadnt opened his mouth then we might have been in a different situation instead of finishing second. Face it, he ****ed up and as the poster says we had a chance to win the weakest league for a long time and didnt.

This season we have villa, spurs and city on top of the big four who all look good for the top 4.

At the start of the season I thought that Arsenal would struggle to finish in the top 4 but now I definitely think it will be us. And if we dont finish in the CL places then benitez should be sacked and we should move on from his spell.

[Ben_Itez]

Would that be the highly rated football coaches within the media?

I noted you slagging Rafa's transfer record earlier in the thread and all i can say to that is Brian ****ing McBride

Our points total last year would have won the Premiership for the majority of the seasons since its inception so to claim it was the weakest league for ages is somewhat misguided in my opinion.

Things arent rosy for sure but i feel some people are overreacting somewhat and, after all, we have no divine right to win the league.

If we're still 8th at the end of the season then maybe we need to look at changing things but i wont be in total despair til i see where we are at halfway

[kop-al-74]

We didnt even look close to getting a goal, first half Babel was decent and then went quiet in the second half.

Spearing was ****, lost the ball on numerous occasions.

We need a decent player to replace Torres when injured, right now weare not good enough, simple as.

Passion and effort were the difference between the teams today.

Those who wanted Spearing to play instead of Lucas: He was even worse.

Taking too long for the subs to come on. Again.

Reina was really good today.

**** it, fed up with it all.

Fat head is a cunt.

I agree,spearing was championship quality at best,we just holding onto false hape if we think this kid is gonna step upto the plate and be part of a premiership winning team.good luck to him though with Zackbred,Warnock and the rest though tbh.

that was a disgraceful team selection and performance. we dont have a hope of winning the league, not a hope when the like of skrtl & carra can barely pass a ball and rush into every challenge

spearing making his prem debut? wtf
how bad was johnson?
babel?


lost 4 out of 9 , how the hell did this happen?

i dont know, really pissed off tbh

Johnson was probably our best player in an attacking view point!He had no quality to play with.

We nearly won it last year. And I could put Istanbul down to fluke had we not made it to the final in 2007 as well.
It's all about expectations at a club like Liverpool. Too many of our fans think we should be winning the league every year. Our club is well past the glory era.

The minimum for me is a decent gtitle challenge. We are not mounting one at the moment, but that can all change if we hit top form.

That is an excellent point many seem to not notice.

The goal is so tragic
The bloody kid next to the LFC fan (with the yellow and red scarf) who threw the beachball onto the pitch wants "hanging"

I hope he's happy with his contribution..I hope the club identifies him and bans the numpty

He has cost us atleast a point today, regardless of hindsight.I ****in hate the little ****,whatever!

DON'T THROW BEACH
BALLS INTO THE PENALTY AREA'S IN FUTURE.

[aa4f4fsd47]

What make the whole thing more depressing was seeing how alonso made a defensive splitting pass last night for real madrid 4th goal.

[kingfunk]

there is a widely held belief within the media that actually man utd didnt win the title but that we lost it - and more specifically Rafa Benitez lost it for Liverpool.

If he hadnt opened his mouth then we might have been in a different situation instead of finishing second. Face it, he ****ed up and as the poster says we had a chance to win the weakest league for a long time and didnt.

This season we have villa, spurs and city on top of the big four who all look good for the top 4.

At the start of the season I thought that Arsenal would struggle to finish in the top 4 but now I definitely think it will be us. And if we dont finish in the CL places then benitez should be sacked and we should move on from his spell.

Amen brother. And any real LFC fan should see this too.

1) Buying a larger whip. (johnson)

2) Changing riders.

3) Saying things like, "This is the way we have always ridden this horse."

4) Appointing a committee to study the horse.(Sammy)

5) Arranging to visit other sites to see how they ride dead horses.

6) Creating a training session to improve riding skills.

7) Passing a resolution stating the horse is not dead. (Degan)

8) Blaming the horse's parents.

9) Declaring that no horse is too dead to beat.

10) Providing additional funding to increase the horse's performance.

11) Harnessing several dead horses together to increase performance. (LFC of lately)

12) Conducting a study to see if private contractors can ride the dead horse cheaper. (Purslow)

13) Issuing(Ironic) a press release stating that the horse is "better, faster and cheaper" dead.

14) Forming a quality circle to find better uses for dead horses.

15) Revising performance goals for dead horses.

16) Insisting that this horse was procured with cost as an independent variable. (Aqua)

17) Promoting the horse to a supervisory position.

RAFA.

[5europeancups]

That was dire. When Veronin comes on as a sub how come he never manages to actually get into the area? He just seems to hang around the 18 yard line. Think I'll have to go out and get pissed and forget this match ever happened.

what worried me yesterday was that in many key positions Sunderland simply had better players than us.

Darren Bent up fron, Lee CatterMole midfield steed Malbranque on the wings

How can it get to a situation like that with all the money we have spent?

I cant beleive Jay Spearing got his chance. He is just not up to it.

What has happened to Plessis? Pacheco? and all the others? They seem to go out on loan and then dont come back. Will we ever see Nemeth in a red shirt again?

I doubt it.

4 losses out of 9 is really galling

[FatTony]

Would that be the highly rated football coaches within the media?

I noted you slagging Rafa's transfer record earlier in the thread and all i can say to that is Brian ****ing McBride

Our points total last year would have won the Premiership for the majority of the seasons since its inception so to claim it was the weakest league for ages is somewhat misguided in my opinion.

Things arent rosy for sure but i feel some people are overreacting somewhat and, after all, we have no divine right to win the league.

If we're still 8th at the end of the season then maybe we need to look at changing things but i wont be in total despair til i see where we are at halfway

I don't think anyone is saying we have a devine right to win the league, but we expect to be in with a shout come April for the final run in. By the end of next week, we could very well be 10 points adrift of Utd after just 10 games, and there is no excuse for that. Come next week our loss rate could very well be 50% in 10 games and that is absolutely disgusting. Our only convincing performances this season so far have come against poor sides, Burnely, Stoke and Hull. Against every club we'd expect to be pushing for a top 6 place, we've lost.

Can people please stop using Aquilani's injury as an excuse as well. Rafa bought him knowing very well that he'd be out until November.

[Lecter]

Oh come on, Rafa has agreed to sell on the likes of Crouch, Keane, Bellamy, Alonso, Arbeloa and replaced them with players of not only like for like, but inferior ability.

One could argue that Bellamy was replaced by Torres

Arbeloa was replaced by Johnson

Crouch and Alonso wanted to leave so to blame Rafa for this is a touch harsh. Crouch was replaced by Robbie Keane I believe?? We have yet to even see Alonso's replacement (Aquilani) but I fear the loss of Alonso will be greater than many of us first thought

Keane was sold and the money has disappeared into the yanks back pocket

I do not have any problem with people criticising Benitez but imo theres lots of grey areas

The guy has spent something like £15 million NETT spread over his entire tenure thats a pittance for a club expected to not only challenge for the title but by many expected to win it

We have had to constantly wheel and deal in the transfer market. Buying one player one season and selling him the next and using part of his NETT budget to buy a better player

[FatTony]

One could argue that Bellamy was replaced by Torres

Arbeloa was replaced by Johnson

Crouch and Alonso wanted to leave so to blame Rafa for this is a touch harsh. Crouch was replaced by Robbie Keane I believe?? We have yet to even see Alonso's replacement (Aquilani) but I fear the loss of Alonso will be greater than many of us first thought

Keane was sold and the money has disappeared into the yanks back pocket

I do not have any problem with people criticising Benitez but imo theres lots of grey areas

The guy has spent something like £15 million NETT spread over his entire tenure thats a pittance for a club expected to not only challenge for the title but by many expected to win it

We have had to constantly wheel and deal in the transfer market. Buying one player one season and selling him the next and using part of his NETT budget to buy a better player

Personally, I think that both Crouch and Alonso would've still played their best had we kept them until we'd decided on adequate replacements, though in Alonso's case I don't think that one exists.

Arbeloa is a better defender than Johnson, but he's also an excellent left back and would've been a better option than Insua.

Rafa decided to sell Keane in January without even having him replaced, all ifs and buts I know but he may well have scored a goal in the second half of the season that won us the league. To sell him and deplete our strikefore in that period was pure madness. This was one of the most shockingly poor managerial decisions ever and that alone should raise more questions than it did.

I cannot believe that Rafa's net spend is £15m, I've read figures of around £120+ previously, though obviously not the £200m that is normally spouted by the media. He's made something like 90+ transfers so far and the young players he has brought in have been average to say the least.