Liverpool v Sunderland Post Match Thread

[Red Chilli]

On paper two teams similar in strength. Home advantage and a fluke of a goal got Sunderland their win.



Although I do think Rafa puts his trust in a few players that aren't up to the task.

Doesn't explain the difference in performance, they were much the better team.

For me the last 2 weeks say it all. The SCUM scrape a draw against the Mackans and Liverpool can't. That's the difference, they want it more

[redkop]

So, Rich, what's the conclusion from your calculation of players values on the pitch?

1) Steve Bruce got more out of his players than Rafa Benitez

Fully agreed. The players most probably play for the paycheck, we need a no nonsense manager whom can drive the winning mentality and self belief onto the players. Things may then improve. But first, we have to get aggressive in our own game and harass the opposition. That'll give us the edge going into a game and have the pyschological advantage before the game starts. Now we're being intimidated all over the pitch. This is not the LFC that I come to know of during those conquering years of 70s and 80s.

[MrMichael]

I'm afraid the latest results is not helping Rafa at all, but he seriously needs to sit down and think how we should really play from now. We have about 6 players today who're not really good enough to play for the club but we have to live with them till the end of the season. But what we should really do is cut down those back and side passes, move faster on the counter, improve those passes by a few 100%, improvement on the movement and positioning of players inside the box, greater creativity, improve on tackling, greater AGGRESIVENESS, play with a winning mentality and play with a 1000X passion for the club and lastly DON"T ONLY START PLAYING FOOTBALL IN THE LAST 10 MINUTES OF THE GAME WHEN WE'RE BEHIND. And also not forgetting all players including the defenders must undergo 2-hours intensive training on shooting and heading at opposition goal. Gone were the days where Sammi used to get us a goal or two.

Looks like we need a totally new coaching staff and a world class phychologist here.

As I said before, I have no idea what happened to the side that was playing superb football, moving the ball quickly, playing with aggression and cutting edge... that was only 4 months ago ffs! It seems like far too often under Rafa we've started seasons out of sorts; some we've got away with it a bit and some we haven't but I'm struggling to remember a season we've actually started playing that well under him

I disagree MrM, he had a contract, we ahd a choice, and Rafa chose incorrectly IMO

I know what you mean dude, but I'm not sure its quite that simple in modern footy. Whether its all Rafa or Parry or someone else's fault for the Barry saga is kind of immaterial, the fact is that last summer the biggest club in his home country came in for Alonso, who was at the age to make that last big move and had given us 5 good years service.... I'm not sure Rafa could really have kept 2 unhappy midfielders.

Plus, well, I can remember us playing equally badly with Alonso in the side.

Don't get me wrong, I wish he was still here, but I feel the the issue is not having genuinely strengthened the squad following his departure, and still feel that substantial amounts of money that could have been spent doing that went into servicing our owners debts instead.

My problem with the whole Alonso affair is that Rafa knew he was going, all summer we danced with Madrid to extract the maximum amount of cash, we shouldn't have then gone for a footballer with no Premiership experience and by all accounts a serious injury as his replacement.

Aquilani may end up an excellent signing, but he's been pants so far... hasn't made it out on the pitch!!!

We should have brought in an experienced midfielder on loan.

I think the rules got changed while the game was being played, but yeah, we look terribly short both in the middle of the park and upfront at the moment. With our best defenders also suffering in form we've gone from having a very strong spine to a pretty weak one, especially but not exclusively in the absence of our 2 best players.

[cream]

My problem with the whole Alonso affair is that Rafa knew he was going, all summer we danced with Madrid to extract the maximum amount of cash, we shouldn't have then gone for a footballer with no Premiership experience and by all accounts a serious injury as his replacement.

Aquilani may end up an excellent signing, but he's been pants so far... hasn't made it out on the pitch!!!

We should have brought in an experienced midfielder on loan.

On the positive side I thought Agger looked reasonable for his first start of the season, and getting him fit and healthy will help mitigate the lose of Alonso in my opinion, it should also mean demoting Skrtel for a bit, who is looking the shadow of his best form.

The sale of Alonso got us two quality player, we needed more than that, Where was the investment?

[Red Chilli]

I know what you mean dude, but I'm not sure its quite that simple in modern footy. Whether its all Rafa or Parry or someone else's fault for the Barry saga is kind of immaterial, the fact is that last summer the biggest club in his home country came in for Alonso, who was at the age to make that last big move and had given us 5 good years service.... I'm not sure Rafa could really have kept 2 unhappy midfielders.

Plus, well, I can remember us playing equally badly with Alonso in the side.

Don't get me wrong, I wish he was still here, but I feel the the issue is not having genuinely strengthened the squad following his departure, and still feel that substantial amounts of money that could have been spent doing that went into servicing our owners debts instead.

If Rafa knew that Alonso had his heart set on leaving then why the **** didn't he sign up Gareth Barry before Citeh?

Once Barry went to Citeh I felt certain that Alonso was staying.

I think Mascherano is unhappy BECAUSE Alonso has gone and not been replaced. They had a good understanding and I think Mascherano could see the iceberg coming.

[tomasjj]

Liverpoolfc.tv Man-of-the-Match: Jay Spearing

flmao...

[Rich]

Liverpoolfc.tv Man-of-the-Match: Jay Spearing

flmao...

Really?!

He had a very poor game

[cream]

If Rafa knew that Alonso had his heart set on leaving then why the **** didn't he sign up Gareth Barry before Citeh?

Once Barry went to Citeh I felt certain that Alonso was staying.

I think Mascherano is unhappy BECAUSE Alonso has gone and not been replaced. They had a good understanding and I think Mascherano could see the iceberg coming.

We started haggling with Villa, Barry thought **** this, I'm not having a repeat of last season so ****ed off to City. Can't blame him, nor Rafa, the Alonso money is all he had. Can't really blame our poor form on Alonso leaving, we started with Kuyt, Benayoun, Babel, Lucas, Spearing, Aurelio and Skrtel, too many average players. They're good enough to fill in the gaps here and there but it's not good having so many average players playing at the same time.

[Joe King]

Liverpoolfc.tv Man-of-the-Match: Jay Spearing

flmao...

Scousers vote truly.

[Exiled_red]

Liverpoolfc.tv Man-of-the-Match: Jay Spearing

flmao...

I'm suprised by that, I'd have given it to Reina, without him it could have been alot worse! I'm not sure Spearing had as bad a game as some people suggested, it was a performance you can't really hold against him as it was his first Premiership start, he had no experienced partner along side him and everyone else in the team was very poor.

[glynner]

Liverpoolfc.tv Man-of-the-Match: Jay Spearing

flmao...

you must be joking!

farcical

Pepe was our best player by a mile

[badpiggy]

a midfield comprised of grafters and spoilers won't do **** and can always get outmuscled by similar types. alonso is gone and we are suffering.

[glynner]

I fully believe Rafa had his transfer budget pulled out from underneath him a couple of months ago. Starting the summer signing a full back for £17m and looking at SIlva/Villa/Tevez, ending it with scraping £1.5m together for a much needed but utterly random CB cover, something very shonky went on and it badly hurt out momentum going into the season.

Rich's post in the match thread that there was only £3m difference in the make up of our 11 and Sunderland's today is very revealing imo.

This is going to be a long hard season now, we're going to have to play ourselves into form bloody sharpish, but thinking of sacking Rafa right now would just be pointless and unconstructive. People were after his head before Xmas last year too, and pretty much every year before that too; we're just going to have to put our heads down, try to get behind the team and hope things don't get worse before they get better

I think Rafa has plenty of blame to burden for the start to our season, regardless of whether he didn't get what he wanted in the summer or not.

Taking about 70 minutes to make a change today - what was all that about?

How Spearing stayed on the field as long as he did is beyond me.

Similarly against Fiorentina, our midfield was run ragged as any blind ****er could see, yet tactically he took his time sorting it.

But I agree replacing him now is not feasible. I don't want him gone, I just want him to act faster to sort our problems out.

Lose the next 2 games - something that on current form against very difficult opposition is not beyond the realms of possibility - and we'd be on a 5 game losing streak, with our entire season in the balance and the pressure of the world on both Rafa's and the teams back.

[red g]

without doubt rafa gives those on the pitch far to long.......some of his subs over the years have been excellent though, specially those that have baffled many when he has done them! perhaps more luck than judgement.

I just wish sometimes he would make double substitions are subs after 45mins the only time he has ever done that is when forced.

I think losing Alonso has certainly had a miles biggger effect on the team than he thought though and he is to blame for that.

any other season in the last 5 we would have been out of it by now......beat scum and the pyschological lift and the fact we will be 4pts behind them and we are right back in it!!!

[FatTony]

Although in football the buck does stop with the manager, and in no way are 4 loses in 9 league games acceptable for us, I do think there's mitigating circumstances.

I fully believe Rafa had his transfer budget pulled out from underneath him a couple of months ago. Starting the summer signing a full back for £17m and looking at SIlva/Villa/Tevez, ending it with scraping £1.5m together for a much needed but utterly random CB cover, something very shonky went on and it badly hurt out momentum going into the season.

Rich's post in the match thread that there was only £3m difference in the make up of our 11 and Sunderland's today is very revealing imo.

Oh come on, Rafa has agreed to sell on the likes of Crouch, Keane, Bellamy, Alonso, Arbeloa and replaced them with players of not only like for like, but inferior ability. This is his fault. We're now lacking completely in attack, Voronin and Ngog as the second choice strikerforce....lets not kid ourselves, they wouldn't make the backup for Birmingham let alone Liverpool. £1.5...haven't we spent £20m on someone who's yet to kick a ball since March? £17m on a fb...oh, we're so poor.

Torres aside (several of europes top clubs were after him so its hardly a genius transfer, but he wouldn't go to any other spanish club and LFC is the next best thing) Rafa does not have anything in this side thats an improvement to what we had under Houllier. There are one or two points of argument where opinions will be split, but besides Torres, who do we have in the side now who's better than Houllier had? Markus Babel, Gerrard, Carra, Hyypia, Henchoz, Hamman, Owen, Heskey, Smicer, Bench Fowler, Berger, Ziege and Murphy. Actually, sod that, where's the argument? That is by far a better squad than we have now.

Rafa was very, very fortunate last season, and even with the fortune, he failed to win the league with what must be the weakest league run thay the Mancs, Chavs and Arsenal have had, yet he still managed to **** it up.

Rafa is completely to blame for this, despite the injuries, this squad is very weak. Don't even mention Aquilani...we've bought a player unproven in the EPL for £20m who hasn't even kicked a ball for the best part of the year.

Rafa's fecked up, if he fails to get us into the CL next season, he deserves to go and should go.

Oh, and I'm not defending Babel anymore. If he wants to shout his mouth off about a lack of opportunities at LFC, then he needs to put in better performances asap and prove everyone wrong.