Liverpool v Sunderland Post Match Thread

[Red Chilli]

A draw is almost as costly as a defeat, it's about the number of points you get by the end of the season

Almost as costly, but NOT as costly

[redkop]

No we didn't, you said the squad's not good enough and I question that. They are good enough to get a point against Sunderland, they just aren't organised or motivated and that comes from the coaching staff

Yes, talking about the coaching staff, just wonder what the hell they do in training? When the players are at the opposition box, we're indecisive and totally lost, no players in the box attempted to get into a scoring positon to receive the ball. Those in the box stood there like a statue waiting for the ball to land at their head or feet. Looking back the years, when we had Kenny and Rush that danced in the opposition box and what we have now makes me

And what the hell they do in training, I just wonder, our passing is as bad as ever. It looks as if we only do light jogging, side and back passes in training, that's what we're good at in most of the matches, so far. Time to carry out an overhaul to the coaching staff.

[MrMichael]

We absolutely need one of those players, or someone of that ilk.

We really do.... and I fully believe we expected to be able to bring at least one of them in before the budget disappeared in a cloud of smoke and spin.

[Red Chilli]

We really do.... and I fully believe we expected to be able to bring at least one of them in before the budget disappeared in a cloud of smoke and spin.

It was a shame we sold one 2 weeks before the start of the season

[Rich]

Although in football the buck does stop with the manager, and in no way are 4 loses in 9 league games acceptable for us, I do think there's mitigating circumstances.

I fully believe Rafa had his transfer budget pulled out from underneath him a couple of months ago. Starting the summer signing a full back for £17m and looking at SIlva/Villa/Tevez, ending it with scraping £1.5m together for a much needed but utterly random CB cover, something very shonky went on and it badly hurt out momentum going into the season.

Rich's post in the match thread that there was only £3m difference in the make up of our 11 and Sunderland's today is very revealing imo.

This is going to be a long hard season now, we're going to have to play ourselves into form bloody sharpish, but thinking of sacking Rafa right now would just be pointless and unconstructive. People were after his head before Xmas last year too, and pretty much every year before that too; we're just going to have to put our heads down, try to get behind the team and hope things don't get worse before they get better

It was a reasonably well researched post by me which has got past most people.

Ours and Sunderland's first 11 cost virtually the same - and we're playing them at their place. I don't think we can assume that we're going to win.

Having said that although the performance was poor, and we never looked like scoring unlike the Kuyt/Ngog double save, if it wasn't for a truly bizarre goal then we'd have left with a reasonable 0-0.

Writing off the season is a knee-jerk and slightly crazy reaction, and other results this season point to a lower point haul will win you the title this year.

Today also highlight a couple more things (if we didn't need reminding), our strength and depth is woefully lacking and probably the worst in the top 8, and we're highly reliant on Torres and Gerrard. If we can keep the aforementioned duo fit then I still think we'll have enough to challenge for the league. If not, we'll struggle.

I wouldn't be surprised if the league winners this year lost 6/7 games.

[MrMichael]

It was a shame we sold one 2 weeks before the start of the season

The loss of Alonso has hurt us no doubt, especially in terms of momentum, but I do think we didn't have a great deal of choice in that - had he been replaced with 2 or 3 genuine quality players, which the budget we supposedly went into the summer with should have allowed for, things could have been very different.

[Red Chilli]

The loss of Alonso has hurt us no doubt, especially in terms of momentum, but I do think we didn't have a great deal of choice in that - had he been replaced with 2 or 3 genuine quality players, which the budget we supposedly went into the summer with should have allowed for, things could have been very different.

I disagree MrM, he had a contract, we ahd a choice, and Rafa chose incorrectly IMO

[redkop]

I'm afraid the latest results is not helping Rafa at all, but he seriously needs to sit down and think how we should really play from now. We have about 6 players today who're not really good enough to play for the club but we have to live with them till the end of the season. But what we should really do is cut down those back and side passes, move faster on the counter, improve those passes by a few 100%, improvement on the movement and positioning of players inside the box, greater creativity, improve on tackling, greater AGGRESIVENESS, play with a winning mentality and play with a 1000X passion for the club and lastly DON"T ONLY START PLAYING FOOTBALL IN THE LAST 10 MINUTES OF THE GAME WHEN WE'RE BEHIND. And also not forgetting all players including the defenders must undergo 2-hours intensive training on shooting and heading at opposition goal. Gone were the days where Sammi used to get us a goal or two.

Looks like we need a totally new coaching staff and a world class phychologist here.

[Rich]

The loss of Alonso has hurt us no doubt, especially in terms of momentum, but I do think we didn't have a great deal of choice in that - had he been replaced with 2 or 3 genuine quality players, which the budget we supposedly went into the summer with should have allowed for, things could have been very different.

My problem with the whole Alonso affair is that Rafa knew he was going, all summer we danced with Madrid to extract the maximum amount of cash, we shouldn't have then gone for a footballer with no Premiership experience and by all accounts a serious injury as his replacement.

Aquilani may end up an excellent signing, but he's been pants so far... hasn't made it out on the pitch!!!

We should have brought in an experienced midfielder on loan.

On the positive side I thought Agger looked reasonable for his first start of the season, and getting him fit and healthy will help mitigate the lose of Alonso in my opinion, it should also mean demoting Skrtel for a bit, who is looking the shadow of his best form.

[Red Chilli]

The most worrying thing for me today is that Sunderland can pick Bolo ****ing Zenden and he outclassed our midfielders today.

[MrMichael]

It was a reasonably well researched post by me which has got past most people.

Ours and Sunderland's first 11 cost virtually the same - and we're playing them at their place. I don't think we can assume that we're going to win.

Having said that although the performance was poor, and we never looked like scoring unlike the Kuyt/Ngog double save, if it wasn't for a truly bizarre goal then we'd have left with a reasonable 0-0.

Writing off the season is a knee-jerk and slightly crazy reaction, and other results this season point to a lower point haul will win you the title this year.

Today also highlight a couple more things (if we didn't need reminding), our strength and depth is woefully lacking and probably the worst in the top 8, and we're highly reliant on Torres and Gerrard. If we can keep the aforementioned duo fit then I still think we'll have enough to challenge for the league. If not, we'll struggle.

I wouldn't be surprised if the league winners this year lost 6/7 games.

I thought it was a very interesting comparison myself...

I wonder how many of their team our fans would have taken over some of our players starting today.

Totally agree with the rest of that, its not at all impossible for us to put in a more than decent showing in this league still, but we now need really massive seasons from Torres and Gerrard and some of then others to really step up to the plate too.

[Rich]

I thought it was a very interesting comparison myself...

I wonder how many of their team our fans would have taken over some of our players starting today.

Totally agree with the rest of that, its not at all impossible for us to put in a more than decent showing in this league still, but we now need really massive seasons from Torres and Gerrard and some of then others to really step up to the plate too.

Good point

Bent and Cana are the ones which immediately spring to mind. In our preferred formation both would work well. Not that I'm saying we could/should have signed them, but they were two of the best players on the pitch. Cattemole was also very good before his injury - high energy performance.

[Red Chilli]

So, Rich, what's the conclusion from your calculation of players values on the pitch?

1) Steve Bruce got more out of his players than Rafa Benitez

[redkop]

The most worrying thing for me today is that Sunderland can pick Bolo ****ing Zenden and he outclassed our midfielders today.

How could he not when we had average players (slow and unaggressive) there until Masch restored some respect for us.

[Rich]

So, Rich, what's the conclusion from your calculation of players values on the pitch?

1) Steve Bruce got more out of his players than Rafa Benitez

On paper two teams similar in strength. Home advantage and a fluke of a goal got Sunderland their win.



Although I do think Rafa puts his trust in a few players that aren't up to the task.