Liverpool v Sunderland Post Match Thread

[el matador]

Rubbish

Alonso went because Madrid came calling thats it

Arbeloa had 1 year left on his contract.

Barry had 2 years left on his contract

If you asked alonso which team he would have left liverpool for im certain he wouldnt have said Real Madrid.

If you look at the type of player he is - he is a team player, focuses on the making the team play and doesnt look for individual praise nor does he covet individual accolades. is one of the most selfless players i have ever seen and gives 100% in every match. Not arrogant just a brilliant player and person.

That is the exact opposite of almost every player at real madrid and their overall team philosophy. They arent a team - they are a bunch of egotistical individuals who only play for themselves. They are probably the last team someone like him would want to join.

[Reece]

How exactly did Rafa screw Crouch around? I don't get that. He was backup to Fernando Torres which he wasn't happy with, and thus wanted to leave rather than extend his contract. Rafa made it clear that he wanted to keep him, but he was never going to keep Torres out of the side.

And Bellamy too? He didn't exactly set the world alight so Rafa decided to move him on.

[Exiled_red]

If you asked alonso which team he would have left liverpool for im certain he wouldnt have said Real Madrid.

If you look at the type of player he is - he is a team player, focuses on the making the team play and doesnt look for individual praise nor does he covet individual accolades. is one of the most selfless players i have ever seen and gives 100% in every match. Not arrogant just a brilliant player and person.

That is the exact opposite of almost every player at real madrid and their overall team philosophy. They arent a team - they are a bunch of egotistical individuals who only play for themselves. They are probably the last team someone like him would want to join.

He had said previously that he would move back to Spain at some point, if he wants to have a successful career (in Spain) that really only leaves 2 options, Real Madrid and Barcelona. How many players will get more than one chance to play for either of those clubs?

[Exiled_red]

How exactly did Rafa screw Crouch around? I don't get that. He was backup to Fernando Torres which he wasn't happy with, and thus wanted to leave rather than extend his contract. Rafa made it clear that he wanted to keep him, but he was never going to keep Torres out of the side.

And Bellamy too? He didn't exactly set the world alight so Rafa decided to move him on.

People are just frustrated about the current situation and are over-reacting and using anything as a stick to beat Rafa with at the moment IMO.

[tomasjj]

Do you have the right player? 3 goals in two seasons at PSG....

As far as players "wanting" to go, that doesn't mean you have to let them. I have no doubt that Alonso and Crouch would've still played their best if we'd kept them.

Arbeloa, replaced with better? He's better defensively than Johnson, Johnson is better going forward. We lost 2 games all season last year and 4 in 9 so far. Besides that, Arbeloa is a better left back than he is right, so you could argue that he's been replaced by Insua, in which case the argument has no grounds at all.

Why are you laughing?
N'gog has done fairly well for us in fact.
He has scored a goal every 1.54 games he has played ( 7,74 games, 5 goals).
At PSG he was often used on the wing btw, but it is his LFC record that is of concern to us.
I seem to remember Torres is the only other striker who has such a good record. Not that I am saying Ngog is as good as Torres of course, but I think you get my point.

You think Alonso and Crouch would have played their best?
Perhaps, but I don't think so.
Take a look at Mascher now for instance.
Pinning their exits on Rafa alone is not very fair. Player power today is very strong. Crouch was not happy about riding the bench, had one year left of his contract. Managers hands are tied. Unless you argue that Crouch should have played, alongside or together with Torres, but that is another matter.

I cannot believe you are even trying to argue that, all in all, Arbeloa and Johnson are equals.
Arbeloa was steady enough, agreed. But I've yet to see proof that Johnson is so poor defensively that people say. How many goals have we let in from his side? Johnson is a superior player.

I also see you also using our 4 loses in 9 this season as an argument as to why Johnson is a poorer defender than Arbeloa.
Can you not see that this argument is not logical?

Have you also noticed our shift in attacking mentality at the end of the last season and during this one? There are many factors playing into our form this season, but I find that replacing Arbeloa with Johnson has contributed more to the positive than the negative, all in all.

Arbeloa better at left back? Not sure about that one either.
Yeah, he had one very good game there against Barca. He was played there because Messi was playing there, always cutting in to his strongest left foot.
In total, Arbeloa played 98 games for LFC, I reckon 5-6 of those were on the left, mainly in his first season.

[el matador]

How exactly did Rafa screw Crouch around? I don't get that. He was backup to Fernando Torres which he wasn't happy with, and thus wanted to leave rather than extend his contract. Rafa made it clear that he wanted to keep him, but he was never going to keep Torres out of the side.

And Bellamy too? He didn't exactly set the world alight so Rafa decided to move him on.

bellamy is a decent player and was never given a proper chance, like keane who was treated really badly.

Crouch deserved to play more and has gone on to prove that he is a decent player at any level of the game.

Rafa loves the players is that he loves and the ones that he doesnt he gives them the cold shoulder.

His man management skills are non existant and this has been confirmed by gerrard on several ocassions.

[Exiled_red]

bellamy is a decent player and was never given a proper chance, like keane who was treated really badly.

Crouch deserved to play more and has gone on to prove that he is a decent player at any level of the game.

Rafa loves the players is that he loves and the ones that he doesnt he gives them the cold shoulder.

His man management skills are non existant and this has been confirmed by gerrard on several ocassions.

Bellamy was given enough games he just wasn't up to it.

Crouch is a good player (very under-rated) and I'm dissapointed he left, but in a choice between him and Torres there's only one winner. Personally I wanted to see them play together in a front 2 but it never happened as the system with Torres was working well. That's just one of those things that happens

[Lecter]

bellamy is a decent player and was never given a proper chance, like keane who was treated really badly.

A question regarding Bellamy

Bellamy and Cisse were sold for circa £13-14 million (together)

Would you have preferred Bellamy to stay and miss out on Torres?

[The Birdman]

bellamy is a decent player and was never given a proper chance, like keane who was treated really badly.

Crouch deserved to play more and has gone on to prove that he is a decent player at any level of the game.

Rafa loves the players is that he loves and the ones that he doesnt he gives them the cold shoulder.

His man management skills are non existant and this has been confirmed by gerrard on several ocassions.

Mate with all due respect you are pissed, Crouch wanted to leave because Rafa wouldn't / couldn't guarantee him more starts so he has ended up at Spurs 3rd choice behind Keane (who was absolutely dog **** for us) and Defoe.

[The Birdman]

A question regarding Bellamy

Bellamy and Cisse were sold for circa £13-14 million (together)

Would you have preferred Bellamy to stay and miss out on Torres?

El matador would, he would rather we kept Keane, Crouch and Bellamy instead of using some of the money generated from their sales to fund Torres.

All footballer manager type computer games should be banned from anyone posting on EST because I honestly think some posters think they are real

[FatTony]

Why are you laughing?
N'gog has done fairly well for us in fact.
He has scored a goal every 1.54 games he has played ( 7,74 games, 5 goals).
At PSG he was often used on the wing btw, but it is his LFC record that is of concern to us.
I seem to remember Torres is the only other striker who has such a good record. Not that I am saying Ngog is as good as Torres of course, but I think you get my point.

You think Alonso and Crouch would have played their best?
Perhaps, but I don't think so.
Take a look at Mascher now for instance.
Pinning their exits on Rafa alone is not very fair. Player power today is very strong. Crouch was not happy about riding the bench, had one year left of his contract. Managers hands are tied. Unless you argue that Crouch should have played, alongside or together with Torres, but that is another matter.

I cannot believe you are even trying to argue that, all in all, Arbeloa and Johnson are equals.
Arbeloa was steady enough, agreed. But I've yet to see proof that Johnson is so poor defensively that people say. How many goals have we let in from his side? Johnson is a superior player.

I also see you also using our 4 loses in 9 this season as an argument as to why Johnson is a poorer defender than Arbeloa.
Can you not see that this argument is not logical?

Have you also noticed our shift in attacking mentality at the end of the last season and during this one? There are many factors playing into our form this season, but I find that replacing Arbeloa with Johnson has contributed more to the positive than the negative, all in all.

Arbeloa better at left back? Not sure about that one either.
Yeah, he had one very good game there against Barca. He was played there because Messi was playing there, always cutting in to his strongest left foot.
In total, Arbeloa played 98 games for LFC, I reckon 5-6 of those were on the left, mainly in his first season.

With Ngog, I'm laughing because you say he has a good scoring record. He's done ok on the few games he's had, his last goal was a little fortunate, but its not a record as such as there are just too few games, I mean, its like saying that a stiker plays one game and scores, and we say he has a great scoring record. Of what we have seen of Ngog, he's just not got it. We have a history of bringing young strikers on who hit the ground running and he's been far from effective.

With Alonso and Crouch, I think that they're a different mentality than say Mascher. I really do believe that they would both remain professional until the end.

I also believe that we're weaker defensively with Johnson, and yes, I use the argument that 4 losses in 9 games as evidence too that. I'm not however saying that this is all down to Johnson, its also down to the poor form of our entire back four, but it doesn't help when you have a roaming right back who is a poorer defender than we're used too. I'm sure I read somewhere that Arbeloa preferred the left back role, could be wrong though.

[Rich]

El matador would, he would rather we kept Keane, Crouch and Bellamy instead of using some of the money generated from their sales to fund Torres.

All footballer manager type computer games should be banned from anyone posting on EST because I honestly think some posters think they are real

Spot on that. Lots of people on here just think that you can trade players like you can on Football Manager - doesn't work like that.

[willa1975]

Unfortunately, it's looking like last year was our year, and we blew it. We're threadbare up front...there's Torres and then, well, nobody. At least not in Rafa's preferred system. I hate to say it, but might as well keep starting Babel when Torres isn't fit. As useless as he is, he's still twice the player N'Gog is...and that's a sad fact. I'd like to think that Rafa would have brought somebody in if he had the financial backing, but I'm not sure about that.

In the end, I think that, for the second year in a row, we've simply had a disastrous transfer window. Johnson was a good signing, but he simply replaced Arbeloa, whose departure was probably imminent. We're also depleted in central midfield with Alonso's departure, and signing a player who's on track to miss the first three months of the season is looking quite foolhardy, as we are currently playing for fourth place. And, as Carragher is appearing to have completed the transition from a veteran player to an old one, Skrtel is playing like ****, Agger can't stay fit, and the funds weren't made available to sign a much-needed quality central defender over the summer, we're in horrible shape at the back.

Right now, we are capable of putting in good performances when our first-choice 11 are fit...despite the disappointing result, we deserved better than we got against Chelsea. But, after that, we're in sorry shape. And, I shudder to think what will happen if we don't make next year's Champions' League, which is a very realistic possibility...even less money will be available for transfers when we will desperately need to rebuild for next year.

I honestly think our only hope of avoiding a long-term slide into midtable mediocrity, or worse, is for G&H to sell up. Otherwise, especially as Gerrard starts to get on in years, I can't help but see us spiraling downward.

[wiw]

I always try to look on the bright side, but to equal our 86 points of last season we need to average 2.45 points a game. To get 90 points last season, United averaged 2.37 points a game.

I just don't know..Chelsea look vulnerable, Utd are getting progressively worse imo, and Arsenal are inconsistent, but we've royally ****ed it up already. 4 losses in 9 games, **** me

[Shaggy]

Liverpoolfc.tv Man-of-the-Match: Jay Spearing

flmao...

Hahaha WTF?! He was completely pants. The lad's patently not up to it.