Rafa should be sacked....

[DannyMan2006]

Sack a guy who got us into 2nd place last season? IMO, He has till next season to deliver.

Only if he delivers this year mate. Every manager is judged on the season just gone. Had he won a mountain of trophies then we could of course forgive the odd disastourous season, but he has not.

I'm not saying he has to win the title, or indeed anything. But he has to finish top 4 minimum. Anything less and he would need a European cup victory to keep him in the job.

As set out in the G+H brochures to potential buyers, Rafa is expected to qualify from the group stages and finish top 4 - Anything less is an abject failure. Personally I hope for a decent title challenge, an extended period in Europe and hopefully a good cup run - we could all do with a trophy and the league cup or FA cup final at the new Wembley would go down well.

Personally, I wouldn't rule us out of any competition at this stage. Even a defeat to Lyon and draw with the Mancs would keep us fighting for both - But both would again be dependant on Liverpool finding top form, something that has looked to be some distance of so far this season.

[RedReet]

Only if he delivers this year mate. Every manager is judged on the season just gone. Had he won a mountain of trophies then we could of course forgive the odd disastourous season, but he has not.

I'm not saying he has to win the title, or indeed anything. But he has to finish top 4 minimum. Anything less and he would need a European cup victory to keep him in the job.

As set out in the G+H brochures to potential buyers, Rafa is expected to qualify from the group stages and finish top 4 - Anything less is an abject failure. Personally I hope for a decent title challenge, an extended period in Europe and hopefully a good cup run - we could all do with a trophy and the league cup or FA cup final at the new Wembley would go down well.

Personally, I wouldn't rule us out of any competition at this stage. Even a defeat to Lyon and draw with the Mancs would keep us fighting for both - But both would again be dependant on Liverpool finding top form, something that has looked to be some distance of so far this season.

What about this scenario. We have a terrible season, finish outside the top four and trophyless. Because of the loss in revenue G&H have no choice but to sell the club. New owners take over promising a decent transfer budget.

Would you give Rafa another season to redeem himself now that he’d have no excuses, or cut our losses and start from scratch with a new manager?

[DannyMan2006]

What about this scenario. We have a terrible season, finish outside the top four and trophyless. Because of the loss in revenue G&H have no choice but to sell the club. New owners take over promising a decent transfer budget.

Would you give Rafa another season to redeem himself now that he’d have no excuses, or cut our losses and start from scratch with a new manager?

Now that's a tough question.

He will have failed under the working conditions of this regime, but as he would have new financial power you could argue he would be working in a completely new job and new scenario, so his past failings could not be used to say he would fail again.

I think it would all have to come down to who else was available and willing to take the job on, as well as how well Rafa could explain to the board his ideas to take the club forward.

I would have to know really if Rafa had lost the confidence of the current crop of players and the crowd. As soon as a coach loses that he is as good as gone. Finishing out the top 4 and without a trophy would suggest he would have done so.

So in that scenario I think I would have to let him go.

(BTW, I fully expect us to finish top 4 and qualify for the knockout stages of the CL. It's a title challenge i'm not so certain of. Stop the press and see how Aquilani adapts for me).

[vonk]

Another 5 year plan with a new manager then we can say goodbye to gerrard/torres and mascherano.

As for gerrard i dont think he would want to wait for another 5 years to win a title just maybe, he would stay and finish his career with liverpool.

Torres mascherano and even reina would leave as they were a reason who came to liverpool because of Rafa.

To be honest its just hard to comprehend from last seasons finish to the league and now the dire situation we are in.

The bottom line is the owners have to go if we do not qualify for CL i wonder how they would re finance or even part of thier debts obviously we will have to sell our prized assets and the new world class manager will have to work with a shoe string budget.

I'll be honest with you mate. If you told me that in return for selling Torres, Mascherano and Gerrard we would have a Liverpool side that would win the league, I'd take it. Liverpool FC is more important than Gerrard, Rafa etc. The bottom line for me are the performances. Whatever players are on the field performances like that are not acceptable. How are Sunderland out working us and out thinking us?!? Chelsea lost too, but the manner of both defeats was night and day different.

I believe Rafa should be given to the end of the season. No doubt.

However it's very disappointing to see that we are completely reliant on two players five years into his reign and still plagued by the inconsistencies of the Houllier era.

[The Birdman]

I'd have to question these 2 points. So we lost Alonso, big deal?! For the time he was with us, he had far more games where he was absent than he did where he made a big difference. Let's not forget that. His final season with us wasn't typical of what he contributed...it was a one off. I'd say that the loss of Tevez and Ronaldo were far, FAR more damaging to Utd as a team and they're top of the league now, whilst we're sandwiched between sunderland and stoke!!!

With regards to the youth system being essential for the future of the club, I'd have to disgaree and say it is a waste of money and a drain on resources. The days of players coming through the ranks to influence the first team are almost extinct. No top club can afford to take the risks of playing inexperience players with so much at stake these days.

You completely miss the point of how valuable it is in selling on the ones not good enough for our 1st team to help increase revenue, and also give up any hope of the next merseyside superstar turning into a Gerrard rather than a Rooney

[dww]

I'd have to question these 2 points. So we lost Alonso, big deal?! For the time he was with us, he had far more games where he was absent than he did where he made a big difference. Let's not forget that. His final season with us wasn't typical of what he contributed...it was a one off. I'd say that the loss of Tevez and Ronaldo were far, FAR more damaging to Utd as a team and they're top of the league now, whilst we're sandwiched between sunderland and stoke!!!

You have never rated Alonso though. I think most people did and I certainly did. I would have been willing to swap him for other players but only ones who hd leadership skills as well as ability. I don't think that the loss of Alonso as a player is the whole problem but I do think the loss of our one player who bought calm to the team was a huge blow - it is more his leadership i think we miss. United have had a team full of leaders for years and I think the loss of Tevez to United was marginal.

With regards to the youth system being essential for the future of the club, I'd have to disgaree and say it is a waste of money and a drain on resources. The days of players coming through the ranks to influence the first team are almost extinct. No top club can afford to take the risks of playing inexperience players with so much at stake these days.

The thing is though that one player like Gerrard has much more influence on the team than a string of other top players would have had. You also get a good income stream and players who are ready to slip into a team shape which is what United have used to reduce the need for spending - the fact that our system hasn't worked has been a huge drain in recent years but a working system would be a huge boon.

[DeeTheDog]

However it's very disappointing to see that we are completely reliant on two players five years into his reign and still plagued by the inconsistencies of the Houllier era.

People seem to have short memories. I'm glad you brought up the Houllier era, prior to Rafa we were not guaranteed a top four spot and struggled in league were only Arsenal and United were the only credible challengers. The latter stages of the Champions' league were only a pipe dream. If we went behind in game, we lost. You think the performance against Sunderland was insipid, recall the days of sitting deep and playing long ball and hoping that Owen fed off the scraps.

Of course we are reliant on our best two players, any team would be; however, results show we have done well without them, indeed last season they played together in small percentage of our games, yet we had our best ever Premier league finish. This season they have played in three of our defeats, yet those defeats are attributed to the weak squad members we have.

We are not having much luck at the moment with injuries and the freak beach ball goal and admittedly poor form. To find that once again when times get slightly tough some fans are calling for manager to be sacked is embarrassingly myopic.

[Shaggy]

People seem to have short memories. I'm glad you brought up the Houllier era, prior to Rafa we were not guaranteed a top four spot and struggled in league were only Arsenal and United were the only credible challengers. The latter stages of the Champions' league were only a pipe dream. If we went behind in game, we lost. You think the performance against Sunderland was insipid, recall the days of sitting deep and playing long ball and hoping that Owen fed off the scraps.

Of course we are reliant on our best two players, any team would be; however, results show we have done well without them, indeed last season they played together in small percentage of our games, yet we had our best ever Premier league finish. This season they have played in three of our defeats, yet those defeats are attributed to the weak squad members we have.

We are not having much luck at the moment with injuries and the freak beach ball goal and admittedly poor form. To find that once again when times get slightly tough some fans are calling for manager to be sacked is embarrassingly myopic.

[wildman]

Rafa's the man for the job. Losing him with the financial state we're in and the owners we have could be suicidal.

[wildman]

I'd have to question these 2 points. So we lost Alonso, big deal?! For the time he was with us, he had far more games where he was absent than he did where he made a big difference.

what an absolute load of bollocks

[einar]

This is how I see it

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2009/10/19/why-rafa-could-qui/

[Kenneth]

[/B]

You completely miss the point of how valuable it is in selling on the ones not good enough for our 1st team to help increase revenue, and also give up any hope of the next merseyside superstar turning into a Gerrard rather than a Rooney

and does it work? Do we make a profit or even break even?

[The Erectile Banana]

This is how I see it

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2009/10...afa-could-qui/

That's an interesting article.

Certainly food for thought.

[Kenneth]

Rafa isn't going to win us the league, of that I am confident. Not sure any manager could in the forseeable future. There is no point changing manager becAuse we are generally playing at our level (but not quite so far this year) and over achieved last year. We are at best the third best team in the league and that is being seriously challenged by arsenal and city at the moment. We expect too much, we aren't a club with the income or cash in the bank to seriously challenge for the title each year, so we don't. It's not complicated.

[Maxiedge]

People seem to have short memories. I'm glad you brought up the Houllier era, prior to Rafa we were not guaranteed a top four spot and struggled in league were only Arsenal and United were the only credible challengers. The latter stages of the Champions' league were only a pipe dream. If we went behind in game, we lost. You think the performance against Sunderland was insipid, recall the days of sitting deep and playing long ball and hoping that Owen fed off the scraps.

Of course we are reliant on our best two players, any team would be; however, results show we have done well without them, indeed last season they played together in small percentage of our games, yet we had our best ever Premier league finish. This season they have played in three of our defeats, yet those defeats are attributed to the weak squad members we have.

We are not having much luck at the moment with injuries and the freak beach ball goal and admittedly poor form. To find that once again when times get slightly tough some fans are calling for manager to be sacked is embarrassingly myopic.

Thats really well said. Could I just add that we're no longer looking for smash and grab results against the top sides too.