Rafa should be sacked....

[Big Dave]

I can't stand the financial argument. We spend a very good amount on players and have the largest squad in the league. Is the argument that without being able to buy £30-40m players on a whim we cannot compete? What about the likes of Tottenham who are getting much much more out of a weaker team? Get so fed up with the excuses for Rafa. He has had plenty of money, I don't want him gone but he needs to start getting far more from our team that he currently does. Every fan and club outside of our own knows that without Gerrard and Torres we are there for the taking

Haven't done any analysis, but I reckon that the current Spurs team would have ended up costing very close to what ours did. Redknapp spent a fair amount of money to get players like Defoe, Crouch, Keane, Palacios etc. They have started the season very well, but I'd be amazed if they finish ahead of us at the end of the season

[gerbin11]

But you have to question the tactics when you consider that all 3 players scored plenty of goals before they were with us, and since they have left us.

I would say Keane is the only one who was effected by tactics. Crouch scored enough but would never replace Torres leading the line. It was not that many games ago that the Gerrard Torres link up was hailed as one of the best. No team could flourish without its two first choice attacking players. Who with quality would come to the club and sit on their arse watching, just in case there was an injury crisis. Or would you seriously prefer to have Bellamy and Crouch instead of our two?

[FatTony]

Haven't done any analysis, but I reckon that the current Spurs team would have ended up costing very close to what ours did. Redknapp spent a fair amount of money to get players like Defoe, Crouch, Keane, Palacios etc. They have started the season very well, but I'd be amazed if they finish ahead of us at the end of the season

I'm pretty sure that the current Spurs squad has cost near £200m and ours £130m.

[vlahka]

I'm pretty sure that the current Spurs squad has cost near £200m and ours £130m.

And 2 of those players were from our team as well. The ones deemed not good enough and removed in favour of keeping players such as Voronin etc.

[Baracus]

And 2 of those players were from our team as well. The ones deemed not good enough and removed in favour of keeping players such as Voronin etc.

That is complete and utter tripe, there is nothing out there on the web to suggest that Rafeal wanted to keep Voronin, im fact there's more gossip that states that Mr. Benitez wanted rid of him and nobody was willing to sign him up for the fee demanded. Rafeal wanted him out for good not on loan.

[vlahka]

No, that is tripe. Past performances ignored for gossip? Are you serious? He was dire in his first season. Benitez sent him off and he did ok in europe elsewhere, not stunning, just ok. He decided to hold on to him because he brought experience to the team. He even mentioned that in interviews I think. If he wanted him sold he would of sold him or loaned him out again. He clearly believes Voronin can do a service for us. If he didnt why the hell would he play him frequently. If he wanted him sold he'd be in the reserves and ignored or loaned out. Benitez kept him in favour of others.

[DannyMan2006]

No, that is tripe. Past performances ignored for gossip? Are you serious? He was dire in his first season. Benitez sent him off and he did ok in europe elsewhere, not stunning, just ok. He decided to hold on to him because he brought experience to the team. He even mentioned that in interviews I think. If he wanted him sold he would of sold him or loaned him out again. He clearly believes Voronin can do a service for us. If he didnt why the hell would he play him frequently. If he wanted him sold he'd be in the reserves and ignored or loaned out. Benitez kept him in favour of others.

We got £12m for Crouch and now close to £16m for Keane.

Can you not see the ****ing difference?

Here's an idea, why didn't Benitez sell Plessis, keep Alonso and buy Aquilani? Maybe because there would have been a slight difference in funds available. I don't for one second think Rafa feels Voronin is better than Keane, but only one of those players would command a hefty fee in return.

[vlahka]

We got £12m for Crouch and now close to £16m for Keane.

Can you not see the ****ing difference?

Here's an idea, why didn't Benitez sell Plessis, keep Alonso and buy Aquilani? Maybe because there would have been a slight difference in funds available. I don't for one second think Rafa feels Voronin is better than Keane, but only one of those players would command a hefty fee in return.

So you're telling me as long as we get a good price for our good players then we should sell them? Cool, how about we sell some other players who would go for a decent fee and keep the lower end of the scale of our squad. That'll go well.

[Big Dave]

We got £12m for Crouch and now close to £16m for Keane.

Can you not see the ****ing difference?

Here's an idea, why didn't Benitez sell Plessis, keep Alonso and buy Aquilani? Maybe because there would have been a slight difference in funds available. I don't for one second think Rafa feels Voronin is better than Keane, but only one of those players would command a hefty fee in return.

Exactly. If Rafa had been given £15m-£20m to spend on a new striker, Voronin would be gone now and the new guy would be wearing the No.10 jersey. Anyone that thinks Benitez values Voronin in the squad ahead of a long list of other players is losing it!

[vlahka]

Anyone who thinks Voronin is better used instead of players like Nemeth is losing it. We've got better already. Babel is better at scoring then Voronin. Benitez kept him to use him as he has done in multiple games this season.

[DannyMan2006]

So you're telling me as long as we get a good price for our good players then we should sell them? Cool, how about we sell some other players who would go for a decent fee and keep the lower end of the scale of our squad. That'll go well.

no mate. What I ask is that we sell players who have not been good enough. We did not sell Crouch for £12m and spend it on Voronin, nor did we sell Keane for £16m and spend it on N'Gog.

Rafa sold those players and brough in players he thought would improve the first team. Voronin came on a free transfer, no one money spent on him other than wages. N'Gog cost about £1m.

I'm sure Rafa would rather have kept Keane and sold Voronin to Spurs for £16m, but he doesn't have that luxury. Indeed, Rafa would also have loved to be abnle to do a Chelsea and keep a £19m signing on the bench, without batting an eyelid. Would be a good sub. But we do not have the cash to operate like that.

In general we have to sell the first teamers who are not good enough and try to replace them with new first teamers who will be good enough.

[DannyMan2006]

Anyone who thinks Voronin is better used instead of players like Nemeth is losing it. We've got better already. Babel is better at scoring then Voronin. Benitez kept him to use him as he has done in multiple games this season.

Nemeth had a great first year in the reserves and then suffered form injuries last year. He needed to go out and play regular amounts of games.

In the reserve games i saw Nemeth play at the back end of last season he was clearly suffering and was below the level of N'gog. He struggled to score and play well. As Voronin had a decent season in Germany and has more experience I think it is pretty clear why Rafa saw Voronin as a better bet than Nemeth.

Come next season if nemeth does well in Greece we can bring him back and ship out the likes of Voronin.

[Reece]

Nemeth had a great first year in the reserves and then suffered form injuries last year. He needed to go out and play regular amounts of games.

In the reserve games i saw Nemeth play at the back end of last season he was clearly suffering and was below the level of N'gog. He struggled to score and play well. As Voronin had a decent season in Germany and has more experience I think it is pretty clear why Rafa saw Voronin as a better bet than Nemeth.

Come next season if nemeth does well in Greece we can bring him back and ship out the likes of Voronin.

[vlahka]

Its not really the selling thats the problem. Its the replacing of those sold. We sold a midfielder ( who benitez upset) and replaced him with another midfielder. He sold a right back and replaced him with another rightback. He sold strikers and replaced them with... wait.

While Johnson is awesome, wouldnt it have been SMARTER to focus on our useless strike force instead of slamming all the money into him? We had Darby and Kelly who could do well enough. At the very least no worse then Arbeloa. Kelly I'm sure is easily better then him too. But right back wasnt our most pressing problem. He keeps not focusing on the real problem areas. Buys too many cheap players. Our squad is filled with rubbish because of this. You go and Sell voronin, Ngog, Babel,Dossena, Degen, and while you wont get 40million out of it you'll get a decent amount that can go towards another player that can fill a problem spot instead of keeping all that deadwood and wasting more money on wages ontop.

[redkop]

Only because Rafa insists on playing with one striker, if he played with two, like most, then we'd be able to keep 2 top strikers happy. He chooses the formation that means we'll never keep 2 quality strikers at the club.

Its all well and good when Gerrard and Torres are fit, but when not, our lack of attacking quality costs us. Torres loses the supply from Gerrard if Gerrard is out and Gerrard loses a quality goal scorer if Torres is out...if they're both out we're very average.

Well said. But I'm of the opinion that Rafa still has not truly recognise the true requiremenst of winning the league. Perhaps he's too stubborn to recognise that. My observation; his approach is still very Valencia, his players back then are tall, slow moving stroking the ball around and hoping for the opening, that has worked in Spain but not here. Look at those players that he has bought. Skillfull to a certain extend they may be, some of you may not necessary agree here, but they are slow moving and unimaginative, he got players to stroke the ball around from back to front, front to back, sideways without trying to play an intelligent and physical game to break the opposition defence, waiting for that opening, that'll never come rafa, unless you harass the opposition defence and hope that they make mistakes. Look at the scums they are the LFC of 70s and 80s, they just blueprint what we did over the years and Rafa is just too blind not to see that. No wonder Alan kennedy whom we have not heard for a long long time came storming with those comments and he's absolutely right. And the zonal marking, OMG, pls wake up Rafa, we're always that 1 or 2 yard off and Lyon exploited that to the fullest. If Rafa insists on buying the same type of players over and over again and playing the same old tactics, I'm afraid we're gonna wait for as long as it takes for him to retire before we get the 19.