Are we regressing?

[cream]

Dropping from Champs league to Europa cup is relegation, whichever way you look at it.

[Exiled_red]

No one is blaming Rafa or calling for him to be sacked. The point is we have slowly been going backwards in Europe for the las 3/4 years, not just this season. The yanks failure to invest in the team has is showing. With less income from the CL, something has to give, what is going to be???

We already sold Alonso last summer...

I think that in terms of quality of first 11 we are improving, however other teams are moving forward faster due to their better financial circumstances. Meaning relative to other teams we are regressing, and this is the main way to measure progress in football.

I'm not simply talking about the few games this season, I'm talking about the time the two vermin have been at the club. We've gone backwards, final, semi final, quarter finals and now staring relegation in the face.

I don't think the champions league is an accurate measure of progress because the games there are a series of one or two off games if you like, as such luck does play a part, and mistakes are amplified. We won the champions league in 2005 and haven't won it since, so using the champions league as a measure it could be said we are regressing however. I would say it would be difficult to argue that the team of 2004/5 is better than the team of last season or this season.

[Redspin]

Final, semi final, quarter final and now struggling to through the group stages. If that isn't going backwards then I don't know what is.

The debts are crippling us, the yanks are holding us back and Rafa can't build the squad we need to compete against the top teams. When you have to sell to buy, in my eyes that is regressing.

This new knee-jerk doom merchant side of your personality is just annoying. I'd prefer it if you went back to making completely unfounded statements on impending takeovers. At least they were a bit of a laugh.

[Redspin]

That's laughable. So we've stood still in that case?

If we've stood still and United, Chelsea and Arsenal have improved, it could be argued that we've gone backwards considering the position at the end of last season?

I would argue that Chelsea haven't improved in the last couple of years. They've stood still although, as has been the case for the past few years, they're very consistent.

Arsenal have gradually improved little by little, although the jury's out on whether they can make the jump from 4th position in the last couple of years.

Man U on the other hand have definitely regressed. Their young players coming through are no great shakes, their debt situation has finally come home to roost and had them shopping round in the bargain basement for the likes of Valencia and Owen, their main CBs are clearly on the slide with no obvious replacements on the scene, their midfield is ageing and predictable. They have been extremely lucky not to have lost perhaps three or four more league games, having played poorly in all but one or two games. I will confidently predict that they definitely won't win the league this season. They're just not good enough.

Given the scale of injuries we've had this season I'm equally confident that we'll climb the table as they start to slide.

[Imy]

Global warming = Cranial inflation.

You look fine in you're picture

[Lee]

Can't remember the last time I saw us play good football and that is sad, no matter what players are on the pitch.

Can you cast your mind back to March, April and May sunshine? It wasn't that long ago that we were playing good football with such ****in superb swagger...