Where the transfer policy has completely failed

[andrewces38]

The whole of the last 18 months under Houllier we leaked goal because between Hamann, Hyypia and Henchoz there was absolutely no pace and we either had to defend deep or leave them exposed. Hyypia is the only one of those not replaced by someone of as high quality, as good a player as Agger may be. Mascherano now is about as good as Hamann was when Rafa took over IMO. Carra now is a better player than Henchoz was then, although granted he is a having a poor season. We have had some great defensive records under Rafa and all with a healthier balance in attack than under Houllier, so I can't really agree. It seems to me you have forgotten just how **** we were at the end of Houllier's reign, and are comparing apples with oranges by equating our current player form with the potential of the players Rafa inherited.

Beyond the first eleven we are worse off than we have been in previous seasons under Rafa IMO, but that's because we've had underinvestment of late and Rafa has prioritised the first XI over the squad. As a result injuries have hit us harder and people will moan he hasn't bought us enough depth. Still, when everyone was fit a couple of seasons back they moaned we bought too many sub-standard players instead of just one or two top notch ones. We can't do it all, we don't have the resources.

Rafa's playing the hand he's dealt and he's played it fairly well I'd say. We've just hit a rough patch at the same time as having some bad luck with injuries and beach balls, all off the back of a season that's raised expectations to the highest I can remember them being in quite some time.

To me that sums every thing up................well put fella

[dww]

The whole of the last 18 months under Houllier we leaked goal because between Hamann, Hyypia and Henchoz there was absolutely no pace and we either had to defend deep or leave them exposed. Hyypia is the only one of those not replaced by someone of as high quality, as good a player as Agger may be. Mascherano now is about as good as Hamann was when Rafa took over IMO. Carra now is a better player than Henchoz was then, although granted he is a having a poor season. We have had some great defensive records under Rafa and all with a healthier balance in attack than under Houllier, so I can't really agree. It seems to me you have forgotten just how **** we were at the end of Houllier's reign, and are comparing apples with oranges by equating our current player form with the potential of the players Rafa inherited.

Beyond the first eleven we are worse off than we have been in previous seasons under Rafa IMO, but that's because we've had underinvestment of late and Rafa has prioritised the first XI over the squad. As a result injuries have hit us harder and people will moan he hasn't bought us enough depth. Still, when everyone was fit a couple of seasons back they moaned we bought too many sub-standard players instead of just one or two top notch ones. We can't do it all, we don't have the resources.

Rafa's playing the hand he's dealt and he's played it fairly well I'd say. We've just hit a rough patch at the same time as having some bad luck with injuries and beach balls, all off the back of a season that's raised expectations to the highest I can remember them being in quite some time.



I can appreciate that this post of yours was intended to skirt around the fact that you're wrong about Johnson, but if you think title races are decided on the previous summer's transfer policy alone, you'd better think again, Mojambo.

Were we favourites then? How did that compare to the odds Houllier had on leading us to number 19 just before he was sacked?

Very well put.

I'm pretty certain every where I looked pre-season United and Chelsea were favourites for the title. I think everyone would have bet on us doing better than we are.

There are valid criticisms of Rafa in the transfer market this summer but we always work under quite severe restrictions and this was the most extreme summer in some ways since he took over. Signing Aquilani while injured was a big gamble and it hasn't come off at all so far. However I'm not sure that once Barry had gone to Citeh there were many great options about even if circumstances had been more favourable.

It's also worth noting that a lot of money went into keeping the players we had and on investment in the future, one part of which was signing Aquilani rather than a lesser player who was fit. As such I think much of the transfer policy in terms of choices can only be judged in the future. Hopefully we will, by the end of the season, be in a better position to judge if Rafa was right to rely on the potential or Ngog as reserve striker, the class of Aquilani to replace Alonso and whether Johnson as part of a settled defense can bring a new attacking dimension to our play at least.

[Charly]

I can appreciate that this post of yours was intended to skirt around the fact that you're wrong about Johnson, but if you think title races are decided on the previous summer's transfer policy alone, you'd better think again,

I disagree on that point.

Arbeloa cost just a couple of million. We replace him with someone who cost £17m when there were several other positions that needed strengthening.

I am not saying Johnson is a bad player, just a bad one at £17m. No defender is worth that. Especially when yyou can get someone like Arbeloa at nearly a tenth of the price, who can mark a player like Messi out of the game.

Keane is another example of player we didnt replace (at all). My point was that we dont have one reliable striker beyond Torres. This was a weakness last year, and wasnt addressed.

And Momo was not replaced with Mascherano. Mascherano is a completely different player, who sits in front of the back 4. Momos work was done in the opposition half. I count Lucas as his replacement, and Lucas is just not good in any role (a better option for the bench).

Rafa has still spent £200m, and beyond Gerrard amd Torres, we look very ordinary, especially in the attacking third of the pitch.

I still stand by my comments. Rafa has spent poorly this summer and last. I know he hasnt been backed the way we would have liked, but you have to work with what you have. His priority should have been a like for like repalcement for Alonso, and as striker, followed by an old head at the back.

We didnt need Aquilani. Our tactics were working fine last season when we regularly put 4-5 goals past the best in the world, we didnt need an expensive replacement. He should have got on his knees and begged Barry to join. This would have left enough cash for a striker. At the worst he should have demanded a striker from Madrid in exchange for Alonso.

I was even more shocked by his refusal to bring in another centreback. What happened next, a few friendles showed how bad our reserve defenders were, and he made an emergency signing of the greek, who doesnt look great.

The reality is, we are gonna be stuck with a poor transfer budget for a good few years. Its going to be even lower if we build a stadium. And if Man City fulfil their potential, its going to be even worse. And Rafa has got to start spending more wisely. A few more cheaper old heads to fill out the ranks. No more ten figure sums for defenders.

[Exiled_red]

I disagree on that point.

Arbeloa cost just a couple of million. We replace him with someone who cost £17m when there were several other positions that needed strengthening.

I am not saying Johnson is a bad player, just a bad one at £17m. No defender is worth that. Especially when yyou can get someone like Arbeloa at nearly a tenth of the price, who can mark a player like Messi out of the game.

Keane is another example of player we didnt replace (at all). My point was that we dont have one reliable striker beyond Torres. This was a weakness last year, and wasnt addressed.

And Momo was not replaced with Mascherano. Mascherano is a completely different player, who sits in front of the back 4. Momos work was done in the opposition half. I count Lucas as his replacement, and Lucas is just not good in any role (a better option for the bench).

Rafa has still spent £200m, and beyond Gerrard amd Torres, we look very ordinary, especially in the attacking third of the pitch.

I still stand by my comments. Rafa has spent poorly this summer and last. I know he hasnt been backed the way we would have liked, but you have to work with what you have. His priority should have been a like for like repalcement for Alonso, and as striker, followed by an old head at the back.

We didnt need Aquilani. Our tactics were working fine last season when we regularly put 4-5 goals past the best in the world, we didnt need an expensive replacement. He should have got on his knees and begged Barry to join. This would have left enough cash for a striker. At the worst he should have demanded a striker from Madrid in exchange for Alonso.

I was even more shocked by his refusal to bring in another centreback. What happened next, a few friendles showed how bad our reserve defenders were, and he made an emergency signing of the greek, who doesnt look great.

The reality is, we are gonna be stuck with a poor transfer budget for a good few years. Its going to be even lower if we build a stadium. And if Man City fulfil their potential, its going to be even worse. And Rafa has got to start spending more wisely. A few more cheaper old heads to fill out the ranks. No more ten figure sums for defenders.

Arbeloa was a bargin at the time we bought him, we got him for less than he was worth, where could we get another deal like that? We'd have to be extremely lucky, you can't base your transfer stratagy on deals like this working out, you have to pay the going rate.

We didnn't need Aquilani we should have got Barry instead? The wages that Barry would have wanted would probably have eaten up most of the difference between the fee he left Villa for and the fee we signed Aquilani for. Even putting that aside the difference between Barry and Aquilani was £5m which striker would we have been able to get for that? Also if we should have brought in a better defender than that would probably have eaten up this £5m aswell. We signed a defender for £2m and we need a striker we couldn't afford both, without extra money.

[Nath]

I think you're wrong in a very very big way in respect of Arbeloa.....step forward Glen ****ing Johnson.

Johnsons great going forward but Arbeloa was far far superior defending. We were in a far better position last season with Arbeloa than we are this season with Johnson.

[Exiled_red]

Johnsons great going forward but Arbeloa was far far superior defending. We were in a far better position last season with Arbeloa than we are this season with Johnson.

Johnson for Arbeloa isn't the only change we've made this season so you can't say that the reason for the difference between this season and last is due to swapping Arbeloa for Johnson

[Nath]

Arbeloa was a bargin at the time we bought him, we got him for less than he was worth, where could we get another deal like that? We'd have to be extremely lucky, you can't base your transfer stratagy on deals like this working out, you have to pay the going rate.

We didnn't need Aquilani we should have got Barry instead? The wages that Barry would have wanted would probably have eaten up most of the difference between the fee he left Villa for and the fee we signed Aquilani for. Even putting that aside the difference between Barry and Aquilani was £5m which striker would we have been able to get for that? Also if we should have brought in a better defender than that would probably have eaten up this £5m aswell. We signed a defender for £2m and we need a striker we couldn't afford both, without extra money.

and the fact that he's only kicked a ball about a couple of times so far and its looking like we're out of the champions league before December and the title race in November possibly indicates that this was a very bad decision (the difference in his and Aqua's wages against the loss of earnings from this seasons champs league and the potential failure to qualify for next seasons).

[Nath]

Johnson for Arbeloa isn't the only change we've made this season so you can't say that the reason for the difference between this season and last is due to swapping Arbeloa for Johnson

Well, the back 4 is pretty much unchanged (other than Aurelio being injured so far).

Anyway, I'm not saying its Johnsons fault, just that Arbeloa was a far superior defender which many people just don't seem to appreciate. Johnson is not £13m better.

[Vermilion]

It's nothing to do with Johnson or Arbeloa imo, it's quite simply injuries and a loss of form by certain players so far this season that's made our defence look ****e, nothing more.

[Kenneth]

Well, the back 4 is pretty much unchanged (other than Aurelio being injured so far).

Anyway, I'm not saying its Johnsons fault, just that Arbeloa was a far superior defender which many people just don't seem to appreciate. Johnson is not £13m better.

I think you're right on this point. Johnson is a good player and gives us attacking width, however, he wasn't good value for money. Should have kept arbeloa, whether he liked it or not, and bought an attacking player.

[Kenneth]

It's nothing to do with Johnson or Arbeloa imo, it's quite simply injuries and a loss of form by certain players so far this season that's made our defence look ****e, nothing more.

Indeed, but we're short of ideas around the box and this should have been addressed.

[Imy]

The loss of Alonso and Hyypia has effected the team obviously due to their qualities on the pitch but a huge loss has been the loss of their characters from the dressing room, both were leaders both were winners, can we say the same about their replacements? Skrtel and Lucas have a lot of quality, but when the chips are down mentally they seem to crumble, Kuyt and Babel are not much better. Compare us to the Chavs who seem to ooze leaders from every corner and to my mind thats where a huge problem lies.

[Kenneth]

The loss of Alonso and Hyypia has effected the team obviously due to their qualities on the pitch but a huge loss has been the loss of their characters from the dressing room, both were leaders both were winners, can we say the same about their replacements? Skrtel and Lucas have a lot of quality, but when the chips are down mentally they seem to crumble, Kuyt and Babel are not much better. Compare us to the Chavs who seem to ooze leaders from every corner and to my mind thats where a huge problem lies.

A lot of people on here suggest that the return of the injured players will see us find again and push us on to fourth place. I wonder whether we have the psychological strength/character to switch it on so easily. We're in a rut that won't be easy to get out of IMO.

[Charly]

Well, the back 4 is pretty much unchanged (other than Aurelio being injured so far).

Anyway, I'm not saying its Johnsons fault, just that Arbeloa was a far superior defender which many people just don't seem to appreciate. Johnson is not £13m better.

Oh no, Ive found someone else that agrees with me on more than one topic...

[Nath]

The loss of Alonso and Hyypia has effected the team obviously due to their qualities on the pitch but a huge loss has been the loss of their characters from the dressing room, both were leaders both were winners, can we say the same about their replacements? Skrtel and Lucas have a lot of quality, but when the chips are down mentally they seem to crumble, Kuyt and Babel are not much better. Compare us to the Chavs who seem to ooze leaders from every corner and to my mind thats where a huge problem lies.

good point, we only currently have a few players who seem to try and raise their game when things aren't going well, Torres, Gerrard, Carra, Mascher and of course the greatest keeper in the world.

the other problem we have is a lack of experience throughout the team, young players who still seem to be adjusting to the premiership (or older players who are too injury prone to ever be getting enough time to hit form, or Rafa keeps resting them), Lucas, Babel, Insua, Skrtel, Agger, Aquilani, Ngog, Riera, Dossena, Al Zhar, the greek etc. We have a spine of Reina, Carra, Mascher, Gerrard, Torres, the rest are being chopped and changed so much (due to the above) that they rarely ever hit their peak or get the experience they require.

We need to add 3 or 4 proven top premiership players, which is why Barry would've been so good.