One thing you SHOULD NOT say about Rafa

[Red Chilli]

I disagree with shankly on this point, I think he deserves the credit for Istanbul and getting to Athens. Not quite sure what he was doing in Athens though.
The thing is, he can't live on the past, you have to look at the present and which direction the team is going in and it does not look in any way positive to me. Whatever anyone says, we rely on 3 players, one is a great goalkeeper but he can only do so much, one is an injury prone striker and the other is a 30 year old legend. Gerrard has not got too many years performing at the level he has done and injuries will catch up with his tired body (as evidenced this year).
For me, to be relying on these players after 5 and a half years and to be languishing where we are domestically and failing in Europe, it's not good enough.

[shankly]

Well Houllier did'nt manage it.

I'll give you that, but then Benitez has barely managed the team this year has he, look I don't want to see the back of him, but at the same time the sun does not shine out of his arse.

You cannot blame the owners or previous managers when Benitez is failing with a team he has assembled, yes it would have been nice to give him more money, but there is a financial crisis the past 18 months which has limited the owners spending power.

[Vermilion]

That's the way of the world, the recession has hit virtually everyone except team like Chavski and Man Citeh. What are we supposed to do, put up with **** results and **** performances until Warren Buffet decides to throw billions at us?
I don't want a team or a manager that relies on a rich sugar daddy before it puts in a decent performance, I want to see the manager get the best out of what the club does provide.

As do i, and but for this season i believe he has.

This bad run started and continued mainly because of injuries, it's snowballed since then with ever increasing pressure and a lack of confidence from the players, and also players having to play while not really fully fit.

Imo we could just as easily with a couple of additions go out and win the title next season under Rafa as things stand, that's just how i see things.

The problem comes with the chavs and others buying the real quality players where we can only buy the left overs, so although we improve they improve more, i see no manager that can change our situation better than Rafa has, this season is just a fluke, in a bad way, an anomoly. imo.

Next season through gritted teeth, the media headlines will be, "It's all a far cry from the last hellish season, as Liverpool fc finally lift the Premiership Title".

[FatTony]

As do i, and but for this season i believe he has.

This bad run started and continued mainly because of injuries, it's snowballed since then with ever increasing pressure and a lack of confidence from the players, and also players having to play while not really fully fit.

Imo we could just as easily with a couple of additions go out and win the title next season under Rafa as things stand, that's just how i see things.

The problem comes with the chavs and others buying the real quality players where we can only buy the left overs, so although we improve they improve more, i see no manager that can change our situation better than Rafa has, this season is just a fluke, in a bad way. imo.

I agree with that, poor start, the timing,the injuries have all combined to build into a pressure cooker and some of the players,and the manager IMO, have cracked.

I have some deep concerns about Rafa's last interview though. He was odd to say the least and sounded like a man losing his marbles. I'm not sure what sort of message this sends out to the players, especially those not handling the pressure themselves.

[Red Chilli]

As do i, and but for this season i believe he has.

This bad run started and continued mainly because of injuries, it's snowballed since then with ever increasing pressure and a lack of confidence from the players, and also players having to play while not really fully fit.

Imo we could just as easily with a couple of additions go out and win the title next season under Rafa as things stand, that's just how i see things.

The problem comes with the chavs and others buying the real quality players where we can only buy the left overs, so although we improve they improve more, i see no manager that can change our situation better than Rafa has, this season is just a fluke, in a bad way. imo.

Why are the players lacking confidence? We've had worse injuries in the past and still won games.

Why is the team going and and thumping the champions and then still lacking confidence? That doesn't add up to me.

For me, Rafa's had one half season in the league where the team has reached it's potential and 5 years where it hasn't

[kemm1]

Considering the ages of some of his squad at the time, and barring injuries, I don't think Houlliers side was much different to be fair.

I'd take Reina over Dudek.
I'd take Riise over Aurelio or Insua (deffo over Insua, but Aurelio is better technically, but then Risse had one of the best left pegs around)
Carra
Hyypia over Agger (Agger may yet progress into a better defender, but he's not yet reached the heights of Sami)
Johnson over Finnan (but its a close call as Finnan was superb defensively).
Kewell over Babel/Reira
Gerrard stays
Mashcer over Hamman
Murphy over Lucas
Owen over Ngog
Torres over Heskey

Jerzy Dudek
John Arne Riise
Jamie Carragher
Sami Hyypia
Steve Finnan
Harry Kewell
Steven Gerrard
Dietmar Hamann
Danny Murphy
Emile Heskey
Michael Owen

*can't consider Aquilani yet as haven't seen enough of him.

Riise is not a footballer he's an athlete and Kewell didn't do anything. Plus Houllier's style of footballer and what he actually sent his guys out there to do was nothing short of disgraceful.

Rafa can be criticised for being cautious but at least it's based around ball retention plus, defending and attacking as one unit. Rafa's theory doesn't always work in practice (well this season), but the past 3 seasons I have seen progress in Rafa's team which is why I'm not interested in going crazy over this season's failings.

I NEVER saw ANY progress under Houllier with his system of play apart from defend deep and hit Owen over the top with a long ball in the counter attack.

[dww]

I don't get the argument that Rafa has cracked - I really don't see any of his actions as out of character or different to how he has behaved in the past. I certainly wouldn't have played Dossena against Pompey for example but there are plenty of times in the past when he has done similar surprising things (and actually there were a good many people on here calling for him to do the same).

I think if there is one thing people shouldn't be saying is that Rafa has cracked. It seems to come out any time things are going bad for us but not once has he ever really changed from sticking to his principles and making the same sorts of decisions.

Some of the players though do seem to not be reacting as you would want them to under pressure.

[kemm1]

For me, Rafa's had one half season in the league where the team has reached it's potential and 5 years where it hasn't

Wow, what an unfair comment!

[FatTony]

Riise is not a footballer he's an athlete and Kewell didn't do anything. Plus Houllier's style of footballer and what he actually sent his guys out there to do was nothing short of disgraceful.

Rafa can be criticised for being cautious but at least it's based around ball retention plus, defending and attacking as one unit. Rafa's theory doesn't always work in practice (well this season), but the past 3 seasons I have seen progress in Rafa's team which is why I'm not interested in going crazy over this season's failings.

I NEVER saw ANY progress under Houllier with his system of play apart from defend deep and hit Owen over the top with a long ball in the counter attack.

Riise on form was better than that, but I could say the same about Kuyt I suppose.

What I was referring to was the player on form, and Kewell on form was a great deal more talented than either Rieira or Babel, but he was very unlucky with injuries (lets pray Aqua is not Rafa's Kewell).

I saw plenty of progress with Houllier. We had a terrible defence under Evans, real comedy stuff and Houllier sorted that right out with one of the most solid back 4's we've had. He also had us winning trophies regularly and until his illness, I thought I saw plenty to be happy about, but fair enough, it all turned sour, much like it is now. Lets just hope that he does turn it around and this season is a one off.

[Red Chilli]

I don't get the argument that Rafa has cracked - I really don't see any of his actions as out of character or different to how he has behaved in the past. I certainly wouldn't have played Dossena against Pompey for example but there are plenty of times in the past when he has done similar surprising things (and actually there were a good many people on here calling for him to do the same).

I think if there is one thing people shouldn't be saying is that Rafa has cracked. It seems to come out any time things are going bad for us but not once has he ever really changed from sticking to his principles and making the same sorts of decisions.

Some of the players though do seem to not be reacting as you would want them to under pressure.

The post Pompey interview was a low point for Rafa with his "referee was perfect" nonsense. That does him no favours.
However, I don't think he's cracked, I just think he's failed to assemble a good enough squad and he's failed to get the best out of the squad he has assembled.

[FatTony]

I don't get the argument that Rafa has cracked - I really don't see any of his actions as out of character or different to how he has behaved in the past. I certainly wouldn't have played Dossena against Pompey for example but there are plenty of times in the past when he has done similar surprising things (and actually there were a good many people on here calling for him to do the same).

I think if there is one thing people shouldn't be saying is that Rafa has cracked. It seems to come out any time things are going bad for us but not once has he ever really changed from sticking to his principles and making the same sorts of decisions.

Some of the players though do seem to not be reacting as you would want them to under pressure.

I was specifically referring to the interview after the Pompey game, that to me was odd behaviour to say the least.

[kemm1]

I agree with that, poor start, the timing,the injuries have all combined to build into a pressure cooker and some of the players,and the manager IMO, have cracked.

I have some deep concerns about Rafa's last interview though. He was odd to say the least and sounded like a man losing his marbles. I'm not sure what sort of message this sends out to the players, especially those not handling the pressure themselves.

I think this is type of thing we need to stay away from. We have no idea if he has cracked, we have no idea if has lost the players.

Please leave that sort of speculation to Richard Keyes, Jamie Redknapp, Paul Merson etc.

[kemm1]

Riise on form was better than that, but I could say the same about Kuyt I suppose.

What I was referring to was the player on form, and Kewell on form was a great deal more talented than either Rieira or Babel, but he was very unlucky with injuries (lets pray Aqua is not Rafa's Kewell).

I saw plenty of progress with Houllier. We had a terrible defence under Evans, real comedy stuff and Houllier sorted that right out with one of the most solid back 4's we've had. He also had us winning trophies regularly and until his illness, I thought I saw plenty to be happy about, but fair enough, it all turned sour, much like it is now. Lets just hope that he does turn it around and this season is a one off.

IMO Kuyt is **** and is Rafa's blind spot, waste of money and is nothing but a donkey. Kewell was hardly ever on form for US and always injured, so what's the difference?

Our teams defended well under Houllier but at the expense of EVERYHTING else. Houllier was a disgrace!

[Joe King]

For me, Rafa's had one half season in the league where the team has reached it's potential and 5 years where it hasn't

Rafa overachieved in his first two seasons

[FatTony]

I think this is type of thing we need to stay away from. We have no idea if he has cracked, we have no idea if has lost the players.

Please leave that sort of speculation to Richard Keyes, Jamie Redknapp, Paul Merson etc.

Ah, so you're talking about censorship.

If LFC fans can't discuss their own opinions on a forum then whats the point?