Liverpool v Stoke - Post match anguish thread

[Shaggy]

He must've meant Macheda.

[Rich]

He must've meant Macheda.

and didn't it happen twice?

[Craig_H]

Yeah Macheda did it twice for them.

Is he advocating chucking someone like Pacheco in, even if he isnt ready, on the basis that there's a tiny chance he might pop up with a goal once or twice?

I'd like to see Pacheco and some of the kids given a chance - but in the right circumstances. Not when we're down in the dumps and going to Stoke to get a kicking.

[topscorer]

Sorry, got the name wrong.

So what are you advocating then? Do you think we should continue with the same line up and same style of play for the second half of the season?

[Guest]

Sorry, got the name wrong.

So what are you advocating then? Do you think we should continue with the same line up and same style of play for the second half of the season?

Yes, as there is still a 4th place, plus an Europa Cup to fight for.

[The Birdman]

and didn't it happen twice?

One of which was a complete fluke as an off target Carrick shot just hit him.
He's gone on to be an amazing player for them this year hasn't he

[Craig_H]

Sorry, got the name wrong.

So what are you advocating then? Do you think we should continue with the same line up and same style of play for the second half of the season?

Perhaps you think there's a tonne of problems with us.

I dont think that's the case.

The players are good enough, the manager's good enough and there's not a huge deal wrong. The only issue is mentality and confidence.

I'm not saying we dont need strengthening in areas, but every team does.

Our plight this campaign, started IMO with a poor preseason which we didnt deal with properly, and we went into the season unprepared and not properly ready. Then we had injuries and bits of lunacy (beachballs?) and now we're in a rut whereby there's no confidence, and even the simplest pass or shot is proving difficult for us. Benayoun's effort when through on goal against Reading proves that. 9 times out of 10, he'd round the keeper and slot home with his eyes closed, but the belief and confidence is gone.

All we can do is keep battling, working hard and (for the love of god, this is the biggest thing IMO) the players simply MUST just trust their ability.

If we do all that, we'll work ourselves out of the mess and the confidence will return, along with the performances and wins.

Whether it's enough to claw back a top four place will depend on how quickly we do it. We'll see.

But wholesale changes and throwing kids in, isnt the answer. A kid is rarely going to be a better option than an established and proven international.

Our side isnt vastly different from the team of March-May 2009.

They havent become bad players overnight, it's just mentality and belief.

The problems are in the mind - not in the feet.

[Guest]

Perhaps you think there's a tonne of problems with us.

I dont think that's the case.

The players are good enough, the manager's good enough and there's not a huge deal wrong. The only issue is mentality and confidence.

I'm not saying we dont need strengthening in areas, but every team does.

Our plight this campaign, started IMO with a poor preseason which we didnt deal with properly, and we went into the season unprepared and not properly ready. Then we had injuries and bits of lunacy (beachballs?) and now we're in a rut whereby there's no confidence, and even the simplest pass or shot is proving difficult for us. Benayoun's effort when through on goal against Reading proves that. 9 times out of 10, he'd round the keeper and slot home with his eyes closed, but the belief and confidence is gone.

All we can do is keep battling, working hard and (for the love of god, this is the biggest thing IMO) the players simply MUST just trust their ability.

If we do all that, we'll work ourselves out of the mess and the confidence will return, along with the performances and wins.

Whether it's enough to claw back a top four place will depend on how quickly we do it. We'll see.

But wholesale changes and throwing kids in, isnt the answer. A kid is rarely going to be a better option than an established and proven international.

Our side isnt vastly different from the team of March-May 2009.

They havent become bad players overnight, it's just mentality and belief.

The problems are in the mind - not in the feet.

I love you mate.

[topscorer]

Yes, as there is still a 4th place, plus an Europa Cup to fight for.

If the same line up and same strategy produces the same results in the second half of the season as we've endured in the first half I'm sure we'll be celebrating both come May won't we.

I hope players like Riera, Maxi and Aquilani can start playing soon AND playing well because I doubt we'll be getting many more games out of Torres this season and I'm not sure about Stevie G either.

Sometimes it just takes a bit of luck to change something, boost confidence and change the whole atmosphere but if your luck is out sometimes you need to try and make your own and I don't think that will happen by just doing the same thing.

[Rich]

Perhaps you think there's a tonne of problems with us.

I dont think that's the case.

The players are good enough, the manager's good enough and there's not a huge deal wrong. The only issue is mentality and confidence.

I'm not saying we dont need strengthening in areas, but every team does.

Our plight this campaign, started IMO with a poor preseason which we didnt deal with properly, and we went into the season unprepared and not properly ready. Then we had injuries and bits of lunacy (beachballs?) and now we're in a rut whereby there's no confidence, and even the simplest pass or shot is proving difficult for us. Benayoun's effort when through on goal against Reading proves that. 9 times out of 10, he'd round the keeper and slot home with his eyes closed, but the belief and confidence is gone.

All we can do is keep battling, working hard and (for the love of god, this is the biggest thing IMO) the players simply MUST just trust their ability.

If we do all that, we'll work ourselves out of the mess and the confidence will return, along with the performances and wins.

Whether it's enough to claw back a top four place will depend on how quickly we do it. We'll see.

But wholesale changes and throwing kids in, isnt the answer. A kid is rarely going to be a better option than an established and proven international.

Our side isnt vastly different from the team of March-May 2009.

They havent become bad players overnight, it's just mentality and belief.

The problems are in the mind - not in the feet.

Very good post but without going on and on about it, losing Alonso, Arbeloa, and Hyypia has been massive for us. Coupled to our horrendous injury problems then its almost a miracle that we're within touching distance of fourth.

[Craig_H]

Just carrying on briefly, the style of play hasnt been good, but that's symptomatic of the lack of confidence. When you're full of belief, you play quicker, you're more dynamic, you'll happily try defence-splitting passes and you'll take defenders on and beat them.

When you're in a rut and your confidence is shot to pieces, you play slower - more methodically, because you're trying to make sure you get it right (whether that's a pass or a shot) and you'll rarely try difficult things. You'll play a five-yard square ball or knock it back to a centre back, rather than trying to beat your man. It's natural.

Look at how we played when we battered Madrid, United and Villa. In that period, we played attacking expansive football, we moved the ball quickly and we completely outplayed some excellent sides. It's a mental thing and it will return. The sad thing is, that the process doesnt happen overnight. It's little things that will form the process of restoring confidence. A solid (but not spectacular display), a clean sheet, a professional win etc. Then as the process builds, it'll gradually get better as the belief returns.

Confidence in football is a bit like trust. It can be taken away in one swift moment, but it takes time to restore properly.

[Craig_H]

Very good post but without going on and on about it, losing Alonso, Arbeloa, and Hyypia has been massive for us. Coupled to our horrendous injury problems then its almost a miracle that we're within touching distance of fourth.

I agree that losing those players has been a blow, but the difference between us from March-May 2009 and now isnt just down to the absence of those three players.

Everyone in the whole squad is completely devoid of confidence and whilst there's many things you can withstand in football, a complete team with no belief in themselves cannot be papered over.

[Craig_H]

If the same line up and same strategy produces the same results in the second half of the season as we've endured in the first half I'm sure we'll be celebrating both come May won't we.

I hope players like Riera, Maxi and Aquilani can start playing soon AND playing well because I doubt we'll be getting many more games out of Torres this season and I'm not sure about Stevie G either.

Sometimes it just takes a bit of luck to change something, boost confidence and change the whole atmosphere but if your luck is out sometimes you need to try and make your own and I don't think that will happen by just doing the same thing.

It worked at Villa Park didnt it?

I think, if your luck is out to the extent that ours was at Stoke, there's very little you can do about it - short of having a Lionel Messi in your side and asking him to win the game on his own for you. Needless to say, if we'd had Gerrard and/or Torres, that might've happened for us, as it did with Nando at Villa.

[topscorer]

Perhaps you think there's a tonne of problems with us.

I dont think that's the case.

The players are good enough, the manager's good enough and there's not a huge deal wrong. The only issue is mentality and confidence.

I'm not saying we dont need strengthening in areas, but every team does.

Our plight this campaign, started IMO with a poor preseason which we didnt deal with properly, and we went into the season unprepared and not properly ready. Then we had injuries and bits of lunacy (beachballs?) and now we're in a rut whereby there's no confidence, and even the simplest pass or shot is proving difficult for us. Benayoun's effort when through on goal against Reading proves that. 9 times out of 10, he'd round the keeper and slot home with his eyes closed, but the belief and confidence is gone.

All we can do is keep battling, working hard and (for the love of god, this is the biggest thing IMO) the players simply MUST just trust their ability.

If we do all that, we'll work ourselves out of the mess and the confidence will return, along with the performances and wins.

Whether it's enough to claw back a top four place will depend on how quickly we do it. We'll see.

But wholesale changes and throwing kids in, isnt the answer. A kid is rarely going to be a better option than an established and proven international.

Our side isnt vastly different from the team of March-May 2009.

They havent become bad players overnight, it's just mentality and belief.

The problems are in the mind - not in the feet.

I completely agree with almost everything you've said except that I don't think it is the same team as last season with all the injuries we've had and as you've rightly said we've had very few options to cover.

It's not as simple as you say, firstly Rafa is hardly Mr Motivator is he? He's been saying for months now that it's just hard work and our luck will change, he needs to do something to try and change our luck.

Maybe it's taking the squad away to a different environment for a few days, changing the training program or giving a kid a chance to shine or change our luck

Their is a lot wrong with our performances and results I don't see how anyone can deny that. Stoke was better than Reading and Portsmouth for work rate but not much better in skill (and I mean basic skills not flash moves).

Whether that's purely down to confidence, a mediocre squad that cannot cover a blight of injuries or just damn bad luck I'm not sure and I'm not sure how to fix whatever it is that's wrong but I'm sure that we cannot just keep doing the same & Rafa and the squad (even the weaker members) are professional footballers and get paid a whole lot more than I do so I would like to hear them say something different in interviews and press conferences than I've been hearing for the past 3 months.

[Armchairkopite]

Perhaps you think there's a tonne of problems with us.

I dont think that's the case.

The players are good enough, the manager's good enough and there's not a huge deal wrong. The only issue is mentality and confidence.

I'm not saying we dont need strengthening in areas, but every team does.

Our plight this campaign, started IMO with a poor preseason which we didnt deal with properly, and we went into the season unprepared and not properly ready. Then we had injuries and bits of lunacy (beachballs?) and now we're in a rut whereby there's no confidence, and even the simplest pass or shot is proving difficult for us. Benayoun's effort when through on goal against Reading proves that. 9 times out of 10, he'd round the keeper and slot home with his eyes closed, but the belief and confidence is gone.

All we can do is keep battling, working hard and (for the love of god, this is the biggest thing IMO) the players simply MUST just trust their ability.

If we do all that, we'll work ourselves out of the mess and the confidence will return, along with the performances and wins.

Whether it's enough to claw back a top four place will depend on how quickly we do it. We'll see.

But wholesale changes and throwing kids in, isnt the answer. A kid is rarely going to be a better option than an established and proven international.

Our side isnt vastly different from the team of March-May 2009.

They havent become bad players overnight, it's just mentality and belief.

The problems are in the mind - not in the feet.

Nail on.