Liverpool v Wigan Post Match

[RoadEnd]

From the SkySports article with Babel

We will analyse and watch videos, like we always do, and I am sure we will be good for the game."

That's the problem - Rafa analyses too much and makes it into a chess game. He spends most of the game instructing the team like a conductor. I don't think some players are allowed to just play and express themselves. Scared to **** that they will be dropped if they don't do what they're told.

The Liverpool of the 70's and 80's kept it simple.

[Exiled_red]

last night rafa made stevie play too deep, our best DM play at RB probably becuase he was worried about Charles ****ing zogbia.

He even admitted playing Lucas instead of Aquiliani becuase there is to much riding on games!!!! FFS!!!

His idea was to scrape 1 nils to the end of the season, get ****ing real that was never going to happen.

Not going to Wigan and trying to rip them a new arsehole is beyond stupid!

You saw in the last twenty minutes we got attakcing intent.......when attacking players came on the pitch, weird that.

City, Arsenal and Wigan we went out to nick a win and got 1pt out of 9. Pretty sure if we would have attacked them we would have got more than 1pt.

The only problem I'd have with that is if we were choosing Lucas ahead of Aquilani because he thought we needed a an extra defensive midfielder. If he's playing Lucas ahead of Aquilani because he feels Aquilani is playing poorly and is a passenger, I see nothing wrong with that. Personally I think it's the latter

[vonk]

I'd keep Reina, Torres, Mascherano and Johnson. Everyone else can sod off.

I agree that the players were a disgrace last night. The way Rafa was sat on the bench most of the game, and his press conference, made me think he is as bemused by the players as we are. Only Reina and the Greek came out with any credit.

But this is the lot of a manager unfortunately. Football is littered with examples of managers losing the dressing room. Something sours and the players don't believe in him any more. Whether it's Rafa's fault or not, it has happened. Its the only explanation for the difference between now and last year.

I think the players have lost faith for a number of reasons, and this is pure speculation of course....

1. The loss of Alonso. Like it or not he was popular, especially with Stevie.
2. The lack of signings in the summer, Pepe alluded to it at the start of the season. It was a blow to a squad who expected strengthening.
3. The fact that the club are broke and it's public. It can't help.
4. Rafa decisions:
- We are too negative with two defensive midfielders
- We have no pace on the wings. Maxi, Riera, Kuyt, Maxi - the slowest wingers in England, who never take on their man and get to the line.
- We have no backup for Torres. When he is out we suffer.

I think all this has resulted in the resignation we are seeing from the players and our captain in particular. The words of support for the manager are hollow with recent performances.

If the players don't believe then it's either Rafa or a player clearout. The former is more likely. To be honest, if Rafa leaving means Gerrard, Torres, Reina and Mascherano leaving then so be it. We are at crisis point, and we need to start over. And by start I mean get back to the fast passing attacking game that is the only way to success in the Premier League.

[Taxi]

I think the players have lost faith for a number of reasons, and this is pure speculation of course....

1. The loss of Alonso. Like it or not he was popular, especially with Stevie.
2. The lack of signings in the summer, Pepe alluded to it at the start of the season. It was a blow to a squad who expected strengthening.
3. The fact that the club are broke and it's public. It can't help.
4. We are too negative with two defensive midfielders
5. We have no pace on the wings. Maxi, Riera, Kuyt, Maxi - the slowest wingers in England, who never take on their man and get to the line.
6. We have no backup for Torres. When he is out we suffer.

and those in bold are wholey or mostly due to Rafa. The handling and treatment of Alonso during the Barry saga (finally confirmed by Alonso thank god because some people would just not accept that it was the reason), the most defensive midfield in the top half of the premiership, the least skillfull regular winger in the big four (how he's persisted with Kuyt on the wing has been a mystery to me since he joined), and most of all selling on several strikers without replacing one over the last couple of years is just retarded.

Since January 1st, we have been significantly beaten in the table by ****ing Everton, and those ****ers have faced Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal and City in that period. Its a ****ing shambles and a disgrace.

[kingfunk]

Zonal marking is another major downfall of Rafa`s. If arsenal used zonal marking they would be loosing tonight.

Wow, what a goal from Nasri.

[Shaggy]

I agree that the players were a disgrace last night. The way Rafa was sat on the bench most of the game, and his press conference, made me think he is as bemused by the players as we are. Only Reina and the Greek came out with any credit.

But this is the lot of a manager unfortunately. Football is littered with examples of managers losing the dressing room. Something sours and the players don't believe in him any more. Whether it's Rafa's fault or not, it has happened. Its the only explanation for the difference between now and last year.

I think the players have lost faith for a number of reasons, and this is pure speculation of course....

1. The loss of Alonso. Like it or not he was popular, especially with Stevie.
2. The lack of signings in the summer, Pepe alluded to it at the start of the season. It was a blow to a squad who expected strengthening.
3. The fact that the club are broke and it's public. It can't help.
4. Rafa decisions:
- We are too negative with two defensive midfielders
- We have no pace on the wings. Maxi, Riera, Kuyt, Maxi - the slowest wingers in England, who never take on their man and get to the line.
- We have no backup for Torres. When he is out we suffer.

I think all this has resulted in the resignation we are seeing from the players and our captain in particular. The words of support for the manager are hollow with recent performances.

If the players don't believe then it's either Rafa or a player clearout. The former is more likely. To be honest, if Rafa leaving means Gerrard, Torres, Reina and Mascherano leaving then so be it. We are at crisis point, and we need to start over. And by start I mean get back to the fast passing attacking game that is the only way to success in the Premier League.

Great summary mate, can't argue with any of it.

[vonk]

only the worst teams will set up in a formation in which you can pick holes without even trying. Otherwise, you have to move players around to make the spaces.

Beating players is crucial, as if you can get past a man, another defender / defensive player has to leave their position and come at you. As soon as this second player leaves their post the space for a pass or run has been created.

Other times, clever forward movement means that your marker has to track you and leave their space - thus creating another opening.

The theory is that your wide players have to be able to get past their fullbacks because this means that the defenisive midfielders near them have to get closer as theii winger has followed your fullback. This leaves more space in the middle for a forward run and a quick pass can create all sorts of openings.

If the other team doesnt think you can hurt them or move them around they only have to defend in two lines of 4 and getting through is almost impossible.

Its like playing five a side where most goals are scored on the counter. If you try and break down a team from the off its quite difficult because the other team defends the space really well. You set yourself out and say come on then try and break us down.

You have to earn the right to play football and at the moment we dont have to tools to open teams up or should I say we arent using the right tools for the job.

Spot on. We are too easy to defend against because our wide men NEVER beat their men. We pass it wide and either the man or the ball comes back infield to Lucas. And his latest move seems to be a square ball to the full back. Repeat the sideways passing ad nauseum until we lose the ball and we are easy to defend against. At least Insua and Johnson seemed to want to take on a man. Why can't our wingers do it?

[tiktu]

Spot on. We are too easy to defend against because our wide men NEVER beat their men. We pass it wide and either the man or the ball comes back infield to Lucas. And his latest move seems to be a square ball to the full back. Repeat the sideways passing ad nauseum until we lose the ball and we are easy to defend against. At least Insua and Johnson seemed to want to take on a man. Why can't our wingers do it?

Trying to get past your man might cause losing the ball, also crossing the ball to the penalty are might cause your team to lose the ball. Lose the possession, lose the game, simply Have you noticed why we try to walk the ball over the line except on those situations when we have 8 men behind the ball, then we might try a long shot from 35 metres?

[Spanishfly]

Bring on Lille!

[Fierce]

I agree that the players were a disgrace last night. The way Rafa was sat on the bench most of the game, and his press conference, made me think he is as bemused by the players as we are. Only Reina and the Greek came out with any credit.

But this is the lot of a manager unfortunately. Football is littered with examples of managers losing the dressing room. Something sours and the players don't believe in him any more. Whether it's Rafa's fault or not, it has happened. Its the only explanation for the difference between now and last year.

I think the players have lost faith for a number of reasons, and this is pure speculation of course....

1. The loss of Alonso. Like it or not he was popular, especially with Stevie.
2. The lack of signings in the summer, Pepe alluded to it at the start of the season. It was a blow to a squad who expected strengthening.
3. The fact that the club are broke and it's public. It can't help.
4. Rafa decisions:
- We are too negative with two defensive midfielders
- We have no pace on the wings. Maxi, Riera, Kuyt, Maxi - the slowest wingers in England, who never take on their man and get to the line.
- We have no backup for Torres. When he is out we suffer.

I think all this has resulted in the resignation we are seeing from the players and our captain in particular. The words of support for the manager are hollow with recent performances.

If the players don't believe then it's either Rafa or a player clearout. The former is more likely. To be honest, if Rafa leaving means Gerrard, Torres, Reina and Mascherano leaving then so be it. We are at crisis point, and we need to start over. And by start I mean get back to the fast passing attacking game that is the only way to success in the Premier League.

[-V-]

I honestly don't think the players futures are based on Rafa's future at all, they are in no way linked. Im fairly confident that if we appointed a good coach with a positive approach then guys like Torres, Reina and Mascherano would still be committed to the club.

[Mike]

Lille have Eden Hazard dont they?

Linked with him a while back, up and coming young talent.

[lickedlollipop]

and those in bold are wholey or mostly due to Rafa ...

not only Alonso, Aquilani seems to be FAIL, even Maxi, remember he came from competitive league, he played regulary, and now he seems to struggle, and Keane was treated like **** (although his playing skills are **** too ), and i just wonder how would Babel play under different manager, Gerrard gave up ... and it's not just players, I mean, why the **** you would take NUFC medical team?

there was something really really wrong in summer IMO. u can't go from world beaters (end of last season) to **** in less than 2 months.

but still, i want, like any other fan, just a ****in answers!

[SimonNo7]

I honestly don't think the players futures are based on Rafa's future at all, they are in no way linked. Im fairly confident that if we appointed a good coach with a positive approach then guys like Torres, Reina and Mascherano would still be committed to the club.